Author Topic: At what point will xcom be obsolete? / scifi literature topic  (Read 12551 times)

Online Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 10102
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
Re: At what point will xcom be obsolete?
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2015, 05:39:27 pm »
X-Files lost their footing IMHO, when they dabled in many different topics without following a coherent story. I mean the whole point of the series (or the vibe it wanted to convey) were the "aliens" and the Govermental cover up. While there were episodes (and whole seasons I might add) that had quite interesting stories outside this scope, when it started to show vampires, necromancers and satan it kinda lost me there.

Yeah, I tend to agree. Well, you could make it a more supernatural series, but I don't think you can have both. But I think the biggest fault of the series was that nothing ever got resolved - no solid proof of aliens, Mulder's sister was never found, and so on.

Quality issues aside, it was at least a solid concept and actual sci-fi, and the urban fantasy episodes didn't change it. The only series I could compare with it was Dark Skies, which I remember as being more coherent and on topic (basically alien conspiracy around the time of Kennedy's assassination).

Offline pilot00

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
  • Back in the day it was gameplay not a feature....
    • View Profile
Re: At what point will xcom be obsolete?
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2015, 06:59:13 pm »
Yeah, I tend to agree. Well, you could make it a more supernatural series, but I don't think you can have both. But I think the biggest fault of the series was that nothing ever got resolved - no solid proof of aliens, Mulder's sister was never found, and so on.

Quality issues aside, it was at least a solid concept and actual sci-fi, and the urban fantasy episodes didn't change it. The only series I could compare with it was Dark Skies, which I remember as being more coherent and on topic (basically alien conspiracy around the time of Kennedy's assassination).

When I saw certain episodes pretty far in and then the movie, my cheesometer started ringing so I dropped the series. A friend of mine told me that in the end, there were no aliens and that all was a Govermental cover up, but IDK if that is true. That one has a weird way of interpreting things so I cannot be sure, not that I bothered to look that is.

Offline kharille

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 371
    • View Profile
Re: At what point will xcom be obsolete? / scifi literature topic
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2015, 04:24:22 am »
I spent 100 US on the chaos reborn kickstarter, and I think I've only put 15 minutes into it.  Which is the amount of time I spent on Elite Dangerous figuring out how to dock with the space station.

Hm..  He did so many squad based tactics, don't know why he would stop.  I enjoyed Magic & Mayhem, chaos with a storyline and better graphics.  Wish he continued the Lords of Chaos/Magic & Mayhem style game...

But squad level tactics...  I played rebel star raiders, rebelstar 2, lasersquad, xcom, apoc, laser squad nemesis...  The guy should not quit... 

Offline Rinnai

  • Squaddie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: At what point will xcom be obsolete?
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2015, 05:54:29 am »
That book will never be out of date for one reason: It was the only sci-fi work that  had a realistic take on our gretest defender (and our greatest offender if we ever make it into other planets), the enviroment. In everything else that you read aliens and humans simply walk into the new planet who admitedly has parameters to support their life fuctions, casually.

Environmentalism was/is the fashionable thing to be into now, so I'm not surprised this interpretation comes up. When I read it the first time, the popular one was anti-colonialism.

Either way, it's a timeless book to be enjoys straight or through reading it's themes.

Offline Phoenix7786

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 139
    • View Profile
Re: At what point will xcom be obsolete? / scifi literature topic
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2015, 07:35:05 pm »
I spent 100 US on the chaos reborn kickstarter, and I think I've only put 15 minutes into it.  Which is the amount of time I spent on Elite Dangerous figuring out how to dock with the space station.

Hm..  He did so many squad based tactics, don't know why he would stop.  I enjoyed Magic & Mayhem, chaos with a storyline and better graphics.  Wish he continued the Lords of Chaos/Magic & Mayhem style game...

But squad level tactics...  I played rebel star raiders, rebelstar 2, lasersquad, xcom, apoc, laser squad nemesis...  The guy should not quit...

Don't forget Rebelstar Tactical Command on the GBA. That's got a pretty good combat-engine to it. Can't believe it's sequel was stopped.

Offline kharille

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 371
    • View Profile
Re: At what point will xcom be obsolete? / scifi literature topic
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2015, 03:39:27 am »
Tactical command?  Must be good but I can't be bothered moving beyond my pc. 

I feel, somehow disillusioned, somehow cheated that people are running around playing useless android games and walking around like zombies, meanwhile there are excellent games ...  Julian Gollop games that hasn't yet become the national sport of every nation.... 

Maybe its the lack of multiplayer in some of those oldergames.  I suppose multiplayer openxcom might be ...  a bit slow... 

Offline pilot00

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
  • Back in the day it was gameplay not a feature....
    • View Profile
Re: At what point will xcom be obsolete? / scifi literature topic
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2015, 05:55:17 pm »
Maybe its the lack of multiplayer in some of those oldergames.  I suppose multiplayer openxcom might be ...  a bit slow...

Call me an oldie/senille w.e. but I believe those games were better (IMO) because there was no multiplayer first mentality back there. The games were designed with immersion and a story to tell in mind. In a multiplayer those considerations are secondary at best if at all.

Offline kharille

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 371
    • View Profile
Re: At what point will xcom be obsolete? / scifi literature topic
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2015, 06:49:48 pm »
Well, with the technology available, two player stuff like hidden movement involved asking your brother to turn around whilst you move in lasersquad for example. 

I have a similar perception of certain authors who made masterpieces but were crowded out by more successful and popular but not necessarily good gamebooks. 

I really enjoyed Lords of Chaos and magic & mayhem.  However they didn't seem to take off, and magic & mayhem 2 was painful.  The new chaos reborn...  its just like the original...  I'm sure its fun back in the 80s when you had nothing better to do but in this age a nice storyline element would be good. 


I think laser squad nemesis introduced single player towards the end.  that's the only time I got into it, couldn't be bothered figuring out multiplayer.

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5254
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: At what point will xcom be obsolete? / scifi literature topic
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2015, 09:09:59 pm »
Call me an oldie/senille w.e. but I believe those games were better (IMO) because there was no multiplayer first mentality back there. The games were designed with immersion and a story to tell in mind. In a multiplayer those considerations are secondary at best if at all.

Well said but let's not forget that the first Laser Squad had built-in multiplayer, and wasn't any worse because of this :)

Offline pilot00

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
  • Back in the day it was gameplay not a feature....
    • View Profile
Re: At what point will xcom be obsolete? / scifi literature topic
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2015, 09:19:41 pm »
Well said but let's not forget that the first Laser Squad had built-in multiplayer, and wasn't any worse because of this :)

Still was the exception rather than the rule.

I havent played that back in the day, and I dont want to to be honest. Not because I wont like it but because Ill feel sad.

Offline Mr. Quiet

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 528
  • Likes: Quiet things. Dislikes: Loud things.
    • View Profile
    • =Open_X_Com= Mods
Re: At what point will xcom be obsolete? / scifi literature topic
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2015, 12:51:08 am »
X-COM will only become obsolete when we stop talking about it and if we're not passing it on to our offspring. In that time *poof*, X-COM is forgotten, and replaced by something else. Probably by something stupid seeing how degrading society is turning. I tell you Tella-tubbies were way ahead of its time. If that show came out for the first time today, people would embrace it.

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5254
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: At what point will xcom be obsolete? / scifi literature topic
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2015, 01:30:40 pm »
X-COM will only become obsolete when we stop talking about it and if we're not passing it on to our offspring. In that time *poof*, X-COM is forgotten, and replaced by something else. Probably by something stupid seeing how degrading society is turning. I tell you Tella-tubbies were way ahead of its time. If that show came out for the first time today, people would embrace it.

It cannot go down on forever, as it would be terminal. The trend will revert at some point, I believe... And this is another echo of War of the Worlds. The whole ending of the book never struck me as very important (yeah so they got killed by microbes - means anyone can be if they ignore the nature). No. The most striking, perhaps, were the people who lived in the tunnels. "They will never find us... Underground". The final act of degradation of the humanity - tunnel rats. The pastor was asking, what is good of the Spirit of Man? He didn't know, but Wells provides the answer - the Spirit of Man doesn't protect us from dying, but it does protect against a far worse fate - the fate of becoming tunnel rats. Cue Metro 2033 book series of the recent years. Over a 100 years passed and - especially in Metro's derivatives - I'll risk saying that people no longer think that becoming tunnel rats is so bad, as they fantasize about such a world... I tend to think of Game of Thrones in a similar way - a fallen civilization with no future, a circus of backstabbing nobles who live at the expense of everyone else and STILL live in shitty poverty. But people watch it for sex and blood (which is understandable), without getting repulsed by how the characters are OK with how hopeless their world is (which is strange).

Offline pilot00

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
  • Back in the day it was gameplay not a feature....
    • View Profile
Re: At what point will xcom be obsolete? / scifi literature topic
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2015, 10:11:37 pm »
Game of thrones is fancy mix of the Western Roman empires most degrading aspects turned into a middle ages context and slapped in with that middle ages mentality to boot. Add in high fantasy. That said, history is full of moments like that (particularly in Europe) sans the fantasy elements (dragons and stuff). People are familiar with this already and its not that most of the things happening in there are not happening in real life either. So its easier to not be repulsed.

In regards to the metro series, I wouldnt call it "fantasizing" about becoming tunnel rats. Presenting a dystopian world usually is a means to raise questions about the morality of those living in the current world (ours or the writters time frame) the steps that led to the presented world and ultimately usually acts as a warning.
I doubt anyone would like to live inside a shit hole of his own voilition.

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5254
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: At what point will xcom be obsolete? / scifi literature topic
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2015, 12:35:54 pm »
Game of thrones is fancy mix of the Western Roman empires most degrading aspects turned into a middle ages context and slapped in with that middle ages mentality to boot. Add in high fantasy. That said, history is full of moments like that (particularly in Europe) sans the fantasy elements (dragons and stuff). People are familiar with this already and its not that most of the things happening in there are not happening in real life either. So its easier to not be repulsed.

They are happening, indeed. That is what worries me. But maybe I am overblowing the whole thing. The masses were always suckers for flesh and blood. To cut this side topic short, as it happens, I know a thing or two about the real Middle Ages. Game of Thrones' destitution and misery, and the death of chivalry, was in our world brought about, amongst other factors, by the rise of Merchant States like Venice or Genua, and the heavy economical drain they've put onto the old feudal system through their superior communications and insatiable greed... giving us Renaissance in exchange, though... So the Game of Thrones brings about the the worst aspects of late Middle Ages mentality and economy, without any Renaissance in sight, in my opinion.

In regards to the metro series, I wouldnt call it "fantasizing" about becoming tunnel rats. Presenting a dystopian world usually is a means to raise questions about the morality of those living in the current world (ours or the writters time frame) the steps that led to the presented world and ultimately usually acts as a warning.
I doubt anyone would like to live inside a shit hole of his own voilition.

Very true. Nobody would like to live there if there was a choice... unless the choice was between two evils? How many would choose the tunnels if the alternative was a seemingly hopeless fight? What if the fight was not hopeless, only dangerous? What if the tunnels are just conveniently perceived as the "lesser evil"? I agree that such visions serve as a warning... but I think Wells gave us a deeper warning, a more profound warning. Anything is better than the tunnels... even the seemingly hopeless fight with the Martians. You shouldn't choose the lesser evil because it's very difficult to measure evil, unless in hindsight. Yes the book ends well, with hope, as when the Martians die, most of the humanity is not defeated, not reduced to rat-like state.

No compromises, even in the face of Armageddon, said Rorschach in The Watchers. But he was crazy, wasn't he...? But the message seems to be still there; better to risk everything than to lose human dignity and civilization. This was another warning against lesser-evilism. I'm not saying it is good to embrace such a fanatical take on this thing as Rorschach did; but he has shown the direction, like Wells, away from the tunnels and towards... uncertain tomorrow, without easy choices? One thing the Tunnels lack is that uncertanity; as it was, it will be, we will be forever safe under the watchful eye of Most Wise Tunnel Overlords...

Maybe it was easier for Wells to write about the Spirit of Man in 1895; after all, the book appeared in what was, in many ways, the most optimistic era of humanity. The wars were believed to be dwindling down, ushering an era of general peace; the Spring of Nations of 1848 gave a beginning to a new society, away with the absolute hell of the early XIXth century, onwards into the era of empowerment, allowed by the Industrial Revolution. By the turn of the century, the paradise seemed to be within grasp; the immense fruits of Industrial Revolution (an order-of-magnitude increase of energy available for every human for the same amount of work) were either given to the workers as high wages, to create free society and middle-class based economy (USA), or taken forcibly by the masses, formenting Communism. In both cases, industry and technology, in time, uplifted the human existence to a new level. Nevermind one of the authors of this new world, Henry Ford, saying: the future is National Socialism... :)

And here, back to Dune, incidentally... the book was written in, what I believe, was the heyday of human civilization (and incidentally, also the Golden Age of SF). Logic and reason seem to go hand in hand with human empowerment that reached its height by the early 1970s... and has been since squandered. With bleak times, reason seems to recede; and when the reason sleeps, demons are born. Is Metro a warning? Or is it a fantasy? What is the lesser evil, the Tunnels and Mutants, or the uncertainty of job, housing, family so many face today? Where is the Spirit of Man in this equation? Were the nukes even launched? In how many ways Metro reminds the world of TFTD? Just food for thought, I don't claim to know the answers.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 12:39:13 pm by Dioxine »

Offline pilot00

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
  • Back in the day it was gameplay not a feature....
    • View Profile
Re: At what point will xcom be obsolete? / scifi literature topic
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2015, 02:56:32 pm »
Though (no insult meant here) I dont recognise the so called 'intellectualls) of the last 3-4 centuries as such there is a quote of Benjamin Franklin: “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” Its not spot on but it is sort of an anwer to the questions you pose.

Personally I have lived "the tunnel rats life" philosophy for around 4-5 years in a sense and I can tell that it is better not to do it. Any alternative is better but thats just me. Your mileage may vary as they say.