Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N7 16-Dec-2023 Flying Tiger, Hidden Tentacle  (Read 3609849 times)

Offline LexThorn

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3315 on: September 14, 2016, 05:29:08 pm »
I was not thinking about "i want better prison". I was thinking "why almost every base facility have one or more versions, but not prison cells?" Roleplay is the factor too.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 05:34:56 pm by LexThorn »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3316 on: September 14, 2016, 07:58:36 pm »
In my experience trying to capture more than 10 prisoners is likely not worth the hassle anyway, at least early on. It's not like you can just arm all your gals with Stun Launchers and go wild, no, for most part you will have to melee if you want to capture anyone, and that's kinda clunky and may result in you being forced to run all over the map because you first captive got up and ran off somewhere you can't see them just as you put down your 11th captive.

From what I've seen on LPs, the default mid-game tactic against weaker factions (Traders or below) is: plate mail + shield -> stunning everyone with shields. So it is an issue.
But do I think it poses a problem with prisons? Not really. I'm with Dioxine here.

Offline Meridian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3317 on: September 14, 2016, 08:51:51 pm »
From what I've seen on LPs, the default mid-game tactic against weaker factions (Traders or below) is: plate mail + shield -> stunning everyone with shields. So it is an issue.
But do I think it poses a problem with prisons? Not really. I'm with Dioxine here.

We all understand the reasoning... it's flawless. You're absolutely right! Just saying that the gameplay experience suffers... what's right is not always the best.

Anyway, as suggested, I am implementing a feature to send the extra prisoners to other bases at random automatically... then I can capture all 80 deep ones, keep 15 and send the rest to a dedicated alien containment base for further processing into pies.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 08:55:49 pm by Meridian »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3318 on: September 14, 2016, 08:54:51 pm »
We all understand the reasoning... it's flawless. You're absolutely right! Just saying that the gameplay experience suffers... big time. What's right is not always the best.

Yeah, well, I don't really have a strong opinion here. I do kinda dislike the shield effect, but I haven't came up with a better alternative, so I'm not in a position to criticize.

Anyway, as suggested, I am implementing a feature to send the extra prisoners to other bases at random automatically... then I can capture all 80 deep ones, keep 15 and send the rest to a dedicated alien containment base for further processing into pies.

Oh, that'd be good!

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3319 on: September 14, 2016, 09:30:34 pm »
Meh, I don't use plate mail.. wasn't there when I went through that phase of the game. Revenant/Brute + handle and power armor + zappers get the job done remarkably well, especially if you complement it with a steady supply of gas grenade. Sure, you're not doing it in the early game, but you'll have plenty of time to do it while waiting for the last few VIPs to finish a game.

Also, 1 gound op base, 1 intercept base, 1 storage base (which cannot be the same as your factory base, and hardly the same as your 3d printer base), 2 manufacturing base (1x factory for large scale production and crazy craft building + base defenses for all the high tech stuff) and 1 research base hardly not enough. If you want multiple teams active at the same time (which you should to favor combat training and have more space for gyms, unless you're playing at a low difficulty level and not suffering wounds/casualties), you can have 2 more. That's what? 3 active teams, maybe 6. Yeah, sounds like a lot, but 3 hasn't been more than I need, so I'm building towards 5 (not 6, because my main base just can't accommodate a 2nd team).

Are all these bases fully built? No, of course. Are tiles really scarce for my active raiding bases? Yup. No tile left free in my main base (main defense strategyis to swarm the 3 hangars from all sides, instead of the usual bottleneck, because I couldn't spare the tiles to create the bottleneck) and my two secondary bases are pretty busy. Especially now that you probably want a surgery room in each to speed up recovery.

Consistency (everything else upgrades), convenience (it's annoying to run out of prisons, and not even a great gameplay element. Luckily Meridian is addressing it) both ask for prison upgrades, and innovation (the cryo-freezing research line idea) could well support it. At least the annoyance will go away.

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3320 on: September 14, 2016, 10:31:56 pm »
Mass captures are (fairly) easy, and I make a point to capture everything I can enslave on JS Ironman. Star Gods are perhaps the only truly annoying thing to capture consistently between their invisibility, the danger of their close range psi, armour ignoring ghost beam, flight, stun resistance, psi resistance and choke immunity.

How do I do it?

TK Projectors (these only vs choke immunes; it badly needs a buff; useless on anyone without maxed out VD), Chokenades, Tower Shields, Force Maces (shield and mace are my go-tos vs choke immunes), Choke Wands, and Mind Control (which either captures if everyone's mind controlled, or allows you to train up reactions with stun batons/handles upon luring them to your ship). Stun bombs and stasis grens are too precious and are only used for true VIPs if the alternatives won't do.

An upgraded prison would be definitely handy.

Tower Shields are situationally great, especially early/mid and prior to VooDoo but problematic? Definitely not. They have a solid niche; they're fine.


With regards to other things being discussed, personally I've never needed more than one ground team, though I do cultivate plenty of backups for rotation at HQ into my ship slots when gals get wounded.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 10:42:09 pm by Surrealistik »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3321 on: September 14, 2016, 11:54:11 pm »
Yeah, there could be space to add better prison types... but that requires making it a whole industry, else it'd be just boring. As in:
- Adding keeping costs for prisoners, while lowering basic maintenance of prisons
- Making standard prisons unable to hold some prisoners (like Star Gods)
- Adding extra facility required to enslave people, so there is more complexity to the prison system
- Probably more

That's naturally a lot of work.

Offline Zharkov

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3322 on: September 15, 2016, 12:14:58 am »
- Making standard prisons unable to hold some prisoners (like Star Gods)

Why, Dioxine, why do you want to torture the players so much?! Where do these evil ideas come from?  ;)

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3323 on: September 15, 2016, 12:28:13 am »
Well, they are not happy with simple prison system, so they obviously desire it :)

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3324 on: September 15, 2016, 01:57:03 am »
Well, they are not happy with simple prison system, so they obviously desire it :)

Whoa, hold on there.

Upgraded higher capacity prison facilities? Great.

Adding another slew of minutiae and micromanagement? Not so great.

Offline Starving Poet

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3325 on: September 15, 2016, 02:21:29 am »
Would it be possible to make prison space global?  Or at least some of it - Just abstract that layer of tedium.   Something like a tier 2 prison with costs in money and material that would include all the logistics between moving prisoners from base to base.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3326 on: September 15, 2016, 03:09:28 am »
Why not make everything global then, dumbing the game down? I've never experienced any tedium, by building a prison in every hideout I have a strike squad stationed. Frankly let's just cut this discussion here, before I start using expletives. Bottom line: for me its too much effort for too little gain, to invest my time and energy into making a better prison facility. Any gains would be marginal; the total space available is 288 tiles. How much is used up by prisons? 2? 3? 4? How much could be saved by having a better prison? One fucking tile out of 288? That's ridiculous. Therefore I won't do it, unless I set out to overhaul the whole mechanic and make prison space much more important, and prison management - more involved.

Also I actually feel that the game has problem with too much, not too little total available facility slots.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 03:11:48 am by Dioxine »

Offline Meridian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3327 on: September 15, 2016, 09:27:05 am »
You know, usually in all discussions and threads, people have very different opinions about a given topic.
This is the first discussion in months, where all players give identical feedback.
Not listening to this feedback is of course your right, arguing (even with rock-solid arguments) is also your right, ... it's just not "smart" (I can't find a right english word, I hope you know what I mean).

- We all experience tedium with alien containment, if you don't, it doesn't mean others don't either. Maybe you are the only one?
- I also have alien containment in all 8 bases... but that doesn't help... sorry but you simply DON'T have 288 tiles... the only time when you have problems with alien containment is after the mission (debriefing)... at that time you have access ONLY to 36 tiles... and that's a big fucking difference.

Anyway, I agree we can cut the discussion. You've clearly made your mind already.

PS: for others... I wanted to make that "transfer feature" in debriefing yesterday... and it would be very easy with one alien containment type... but since we have unlimited number of containment types since recently, it became a much harder task :( I really regret I agreed to implement that stupid feature. I'll implement the transfer eventually, but it will take some time... and probably it won't have any GUI (with unlimited containment types, I couldn't think of any way of visualizing the process).
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 09:30:52 am by Meridian »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3328 on: September 15, 2016, 09:42:25 am »
If that's of any help, I don't seriously intend to use multiple prison types; so if this feature would only function when there is a single prison type in the mod, it'd still be functional in Piratez. Perhaps it'd be also possible to use 'transfer' if your stores have filled up, instead of forced selling. Both features seem natural; if you can transfer, you shouldn't be forced to sell (I envision it as you're basically locked between sell and tranfer screens, freely switchable, with 'done' button appearing when problems are solved either way).
So it's one solution. As for 'better prisons' I don't rule it out (if that was unclear), AS LONG as I come up with something less boring (and several times more expensive) than just 'better prison'.

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3329 on: September 15, 2016, 09:55:01 am »
Agree with Dioxine, that would be redundant  :)