Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N10 24-Nov-2024 Aurora's Dawn  (Read 4322794 times)

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.96 - 20 Nov - News of the World
« Reply #1470 on: November 27, 2015, 04:30:09 am »
Well, the map size is increased a bit, and there are a bit more enemies, but nothing like in some Pogroms. Also no one has ever reported such a bug yet. Maybe it's karma going back at Cristao for cheating his way to victory :)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 04:34:48 am by Dioxine »

Offline Foxhound634

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.96 - 20 Nov - News of the World
« Reply #1471 on: November 27, 2015, 06:00:56 pm »
Never thought i'd get to hear bagpipe music in an XCOM game :D

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.96 - 20 Nov - News of the World
« Reply #1472 on: November 27, 2015, 06:32:33 pm »
@ Dioxine: just before (my) christmas break: as for starting armors I'd switch: Pirate clothing: illimitate at start with armor 15 while Runt duds, production for 75$  armor 20. Small TU penality -5 just an idea don't know, since duds seems to me requiring a lil more "figuring out" by gals and brainers!

As for possible addiction, related to this, this and this another nice addiction may be a chinese pps43 submachine gun, that would nicely fit, as the homefront rifle:


(with or without folding stock.

Also, maybe don't mind the western revolver on the second linked post, since the rusty niner is fine, but the western lever-action rifle, another submachine gun and another carabine see ) may be balanced things to be put as buyable in the black market since game start. Mace may be either buyable and/or manufaturable after havin researched primitive weapons (Arthanor suggesitons seems fine as for requirements to make these). Or maybe even a spiked bat may added, don't know if manufacturable or buyable since start:



that's really all. Just gonna waith the 0.97, cheers!!

Edit: smaller pps43 image

« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 07:28:35 pm by niculinux »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.96 - 20 Nov - News of the World
« Reply #1473 on: November 27, 2015, 08:09:42 pm »
Looks like the next version will be delayed till next week because of nightly upgrades - I'll have to script all the new missions in, I think... But when it's done, there will be a mission balance of sorts (the 'trading' missions appearing more regularly).

@Niculinux: Stop spamming the thread with these f*ckhuge images of weapons, or I'll start deleting them. If you really feel an insatiable urge to use them, link them (wikipedia is fine). I know perfectly well how a PPSh looks, my grandma had one.

For now, a mace preview for all you blunt weapon enthusiasts:
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 08:15:39 pm by Dioxine »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.96 - 20 Nov - News of the World
« Reply #1474 on: November 27, 2015, 08:58:48 pm »
NICE :D

I was running numbers earlier to make a mace as well, and found it surprisingly difficult to create something that is balanced compared to other low-tech melee weapons but still useful and different. We have converged to very similar solutions (but I like yours better..!)

Do you have plans for a "thunder hammer"? If not I should work on one.

PS: I'm looking forward to more trading (and looting!) and less crazy missions. Now the church has decided to sway governments in Europe after infiltrating them (which.. doesn't quite make sense since they already left me.. but I guess that's even more church bases coming up...  >:()

PPS: I also agree about the images, linked or attached works a lot better. In general, I don't think there is much of a need for more early rifles any ways. This is not the "every gun which ever existed" mod, it's already surprising that there are so many "normal" rifles in the early 2600s!

PPPS(!): Meridian's comment about "and the hammer will be.. the hammer" meaning you could rely on it made me think again about how reliable and powerful it can be. I was wondering if, maybe, the solution to the smash stuff but doesn't hit all the time could be making the hammer and pickaxe melee weapons with a range 1 snapshot which only/mostly damages terrain? The fact that a hammer hits 99% of the time really makes it stand out as far as "melee" weapons go, and makes others much less interesting (ex.: swords strike faster and take less stamina, but since you miss and still waste the TUs and stam, you might as well take the hammer)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 09:05:02 pm by Arthanor »

Online Meridian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.96 - 20 Nov - News of the World
« Reply #1475 on: November 27, 2015, 09:11:40 pm »
I promise I won't abuse the hammer... please leave me with at least one reliable weapon, pretty please.

niculinux

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.96 - 20 Nov - News of the World
« Reply #1476 on: November 27, 2015, 09:59:03 pm »
Ok, sorry to everybody :, ( I know it's not a matter of "every gun existed" but a more balanced variety would be interesting, differencing between smg, carabines (mauser karabiner 98 may be also a fine piece, along with the above mentioned m-14) and rifles; these were sheer suggestions/ideas/clues to eventually explore. Take for another example the blunderbuss/autoblunderbuss weapon thing, so for instance later in the game would be no need for an improved blunderbuss because in the 2600 technology offers loads of hardware at disposal...another thing may be: for balancing sake most black market wepons may be low/ood tech, while more modern ones may be had to stsal and research.

Hey thanks for the mace! If you Dioxine may relase next version a bit more delayed, let's say around 20 dec, would be fine so more testing and balancing may happen :)

« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 10:40:14 pm by niculinux »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.96 - 20 Nov - News of the World
« Reply #1477 on: November 27, 2015, 10:38:33 pm »
haha I am specifically not using the hammer because I feel dirty when doing it.. It is much more interesting to try to make cutlasses, axes, short swords and spears work than just picking hammers since you can't miss. I only take it out to clear elevators (one instance where melee weapons completely fail since you can't stab up). I also feel wrong that my hammer gals become great markswomen. To me, the hammer makes melee accuracy obsolete by not requiring it and also making its user a great shot eventually. Maybe if its damage heavily depended on melee (if you're not a good fighter, it's too slow to land a telling hit on anyone? but then that'd break the terrain damage capabilities).

You do highlight something interesting though, and it is the lack of really reliable melee weapons. There are quite a few guns with crazy accuracy (shotguns and blunderbuss for short range, sniper rifles and bows for long range) which allow gals with even just 65% accuracy to hit very reliably. And if it doesn't kill? Just shoot again (with another gal if necessary) or hide around the corner. You don't get that kind of backup or easy escape when using melee weapons. You do get better damage (especially in the early game), but a short string of misses is much more likely to mean a dead gal.

Gals used to start with very high melee accuracy, but that was nerfed (rightfully). There was no "starting melee" weapon added to help in the budding warriors though. I guess there's the spear and billhook, but you also need good bravery/throwing accuracy for it to be worth it, otherwise it's ballbats, pipes and shovels for their "melee/2+50" hit chances. Which actually I'd say is fair enough.

I would say the solution lies in squad (and particularly boarding party) composition:
- Fewer melee weapons (only on gals that have quite good odds to hit): cutlass/axe/billhooks/spears on the best gals to deal with PA, ballbats/pipes/shovels/billhooks/spears on "training gals" to bash the non-PA targets (and leave the PA killers free to kill PA) so they can train their melee accuracy.
- A few gals with better short range backup in the form of blunderbuss (special ammo make that gun a great personal armor killer) and shotguns (great for reaction training too) to try to save the melee gals if things go wrong/ambush enemy units that might be coming after the melee gal who missed and could only run a few tiles. Generally, shotguns are pretty much unused in Piratez, and the blunderbuss.. maybe 1/team?
- Midrange support who can lob explosives at PA and take the pressure off the front lines
- Long range support who can snipe/blow up PA if really needed (tends to be even more expensive, but also tends to get the job done)

One weapon that would be cool is a gladiator net. Drains stamina and TUs on hit (to represent entanglement) and applies some stun damage. Is it possible to also drop firing/melee accuracies like if the target had suffered damage? Or TUs on the next turn? Or melee dodge? Basically, what do you do if your target proves impervious to your weapons? You trap it until it is at your mercy and then hit it many times with something heavy :D Doesn't matter if your weapon is inaccurate or unwieldy if you can swing however many times it takes.

Although thanks to my new friend Tesla, I found a weapon I like even more than I ever liked the hammer :D

@niculinux: You really think there isn't enough variety in starting guns? That's probably one of the most well furnished tier of any game/mod, and most people barely look at it.

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.96 - 20 Nov - News of the World
« Reply #1478 on: November 27, 2015, 10:49:51 pm »
@niculinux: You really think there isn't enough variety in starting guns? That's probably one of the most well furnished tier of any game/mod, and most people barely look at it.

probably it's may fault because some years ago while still i used windows i used to play to jagged alliance 2 with mod/patch 1.13 that provided 2000+ weapons!!!! :o

Well i think aside of mace, whatever will be its fate to be buyable or  not, 4-5 weapons in tne black market from start (2  arabines, 2 smg and a rifle) may be nice, even as cosmetic variant since balancing may start to become demanding. As for the hammer actually it should less accurate in comparison to other melee weapons since is deadly, but may be slow and heavy to handle. I really did not see the reason for the existence of a shovel in the black market, it' more to be found as loot. ;) It may be replaced in tne BM by the mace, and eventuzlly a an halberd may be added as manufacturable weapons once you research "primitive weapons"..so as for melee weapoms these may be enough. :) A single shot blunderbuss may be added by modifiyng this sprite at Dioxine's airlight hangar!

as for gladiator net: may be an alternative/improvement and have same usage as the rope. Shotguns are not that used by player i giess since they host less ammunition in their chambers, but i'm ok with these because are conceived for certain strategies : D hey, in the very end that blinky flash across the screen while firing a flamethrower or a grenade explodes  may be removed or it's more an openxcom extended feature?

edit: the usual typos

edit: some thoughts
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 11:16:27 pm by niculinux »

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.96 - 20 Nov - News of the World
« Reply #1479 on: November 27, 2015, 11:20:58 pm »
Gladiator net sounds impressive!! Me-likes!!

Also @Niculiunx:  JA 2 1.13 is amazing and a lovely game.  The gun choice is drool worthy for a gun nut.  However, the philosophy of PirateZ is to provide a balanced game with extra similar guns for flavor purposes (sprag gun & smg is one example).  Different factions carry different weapons for immersion rather than to fill lots of niche weapons.  The Original Piratez thread was filled with many of the same suggestions that you have proposed again, and Dioxine explained his philosophy a few times there.

Cheers, Ivan :D

niculinux

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.96 - 20 Nov - News of the World
« Reply #1480 on: November 27, 2015, 11:28:14 pm »
Also @Niculiunx:  JA 2 1.13 is amazing and a lovely game.  The gun choice is drool worthy for a gun nut.  However, the philosophy of PirateZ is to provide a balanced game with extra similar guns for flavor purposes (sprag gun & smg is one example).  Different factions carry different weapons for immersion rather than to fill lots of niche weapons.  The Original Piratez thread was filled with many of the same suggestions that you have proposed again, and Dioxine explained his philosophy a few times there.

Cheers, Ivan :D

Right, i just thought since this is piratez extended there might be room more "extenction" also for weapons...but in the end ok, i won't to the weapon maniac anymore!!

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.96 - 20 Nov - News of the World
« Reply #1481 on: November 28, 2015, 01:39:59 am »
You should make a "Moar gunzes" mod for X-Piratez where you put a gazillion other rifles in ;P then those who want it can use it but Dioxine doesn't have to worry about it. I would use it. There's never too many gunzes!

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.96 - 20 Nov - News of the World
« Reply #1482 on: November 28, 2015, 02:13:49 am »
It's also a matter of workload. If you give me guns with finished pixel art, that's taking 50-75% workload off me (depending on gfx quality), but 25% times 40 guns is still 10 other objects which might be more interesting to the player. If you just throw an idea, I have to choose between more or less useless 'variety' gun and something which actually is needed to call it 1.0.

About the hammer... no, dropping its damage (which DOES heavily depend on Melee) would be too gamey. A hammer is a hammer. Well, this is a magical hammer that always hits, but it still has its mass. The very fact that Meridian calls it 'the only reliable weapon' means it has to be nerfed. Not much. I'm just upping the TU use from 24 to 30 (and the same goes for its little brother, Pickaxe, 20 to 26 TUs). And Stamina cost stays the same as it is now. Once your gals get 90-100 TUs, 30 won't be that painful. See? No less dependable, just more Kamikaze :)

Otoh, Meridian, no more 100% Fire Immune enemies, as you have unassailably reasoned! Except for Power Armor, but I'm thinking about making them vulnerable too, but only to WP shells (0.1 Fire Res will reduce their fire damage to taking 1 HP per each 6 Flamer blasts/flaming floors, and immune to catching fire, but still able to be somewhat burnt by eg. Mortar WP shells - they'll cause 4-13 damage, which might make a difference on a 40-60 HP enemy). I need also to rething gal's Fire Res, naturally... the 'no more fire res' should work both ways...

EDIT: actually, I think there are too many weapons available from the start, discouraging reading, I'd rather move some of the non-neccesities (like, not the Panzerfaust for sure, it has to stay) to a bulk Contact-like, early & cheap research so the player is introduced more gradually. But Moar Gunz seems like a good idea (if not worth the huge effort at this point).
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 02:32:27 am by Dioxine »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.96 - 20 Nov - News of the World
« Reply #1483 on: November 28, 2015, 03:59:14 am »
I'm still standing for a switch to melee weapon with terrain damaging snapshot for the hammer and pickaxe instead f what they are, but I'm 100% fine with modding things to fit what I want put of them too.

I don't know if nerfing the hammer will ever solve the problem. I think it's either worth it or not, there isn't much of a space in between for balanced for a thing that hits all the time with heavy damage.

I fully agree with the switch of incendiary immunity towards fire immunity (as in "can stand in flames and be fine") instead of bot taking any damage from flamethrower and WP ammo. But honestly I don't think it makes much of a difference. Things with high resist will go from "must be taken out with something else" to "really should be taken out with something else", which isn't all that different. It's just a small iteration towards perfect. And I think there should be some 100% closed armor with life support that is immune to all/most fire.

Reducing the weapons available at the start and adding a contact research for bootypedia and black market unlocks of more gun sounds good. I'd like a 2nd tier that also allows one to purchase some more gun like assault rifles and maybe even blackmarches

Offline Imeryak

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.96 - 20 Nov - News of the World
« Reply #1484 on: November 28, 2015, 06:50:37 am »
I have a suggestion about the sniper weapon.  Shot from it costs a lot of tu, it may miss with 100% chance to hit, and even if hit, can cause no damage (even with HE rounds).
tftd random (50%-150%) damage formula can remove the last flaw.