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Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N8 28-Apr-2024 Labyrinthus Noctis  (Read 3700442 times)

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95C - 29 Oct - Interfaces & Critical Fixes
« Reply #1305 on: November 10, 2015, 10:10:26 pm »
4-5 games in a row where i've been invaded in the first or second month? That cannot be a coincidence. Besides, i never got invaded that early in previous versions, ever. Maybe it is a bug introduced by a newer nightly build?

Well in the last 2 or 3 games i was located in Canada, but before that i tried Africa and China, no change

Well if I say I did nothing to mod this, you have the right to not believe me, naturally :P Also no new Nightly has been introduced.

Offline Roxis231

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95C - 29 Oct - Interfaces & Critical Fixes
« Reply #1306 on: November 10, 2015, 10:56:54 pm »
4-5 games in a row where i've been invaded in the first or second month? That cannot be a coincidence. Besides, i never got invaded that early in previous versions, ever.

Well in the last 2 or 3 games i was located in Canada, but before that i tried Africa and China, no change

I have had several games where I've had a base invasion as the first mission and several where I have never had a base invasion at all.

And YES some of these were in exactly the same places - Infact one game I lost a base invasion at the start of Febuary 2601, reloaded from Jan 1st 2601 save, and then didn't get another base invasion untill May 2603!

So My Guess is its just bad luck on your part - that or crappy random number generation on your PC.

Offline DracoGriffin

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95C - 29 Oct - Interfaces & Critical Fixes
« Reply #1307 on: November 10, 2015, 11:17:41 pm »
4-5 games in a row where i've been invaded in the first or second month? That cannot be a coincidence. Besides, i never got invaded that early in previous versions, ever. Maybe it is a bug introduced by a newer nightly build?

Well in the last 2 or 3 games i was located in Canada, but before that i tried Africa and China, no change

Sometimes if you're savescumming interceptions, you'll provoke a really quick retaliation. Also, if you set Aggressive Retaliation in Advanced -> Geoscape settings, this will be a very common occurrence.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95C - 29 Oct - Interfaces & Critical Fixes
« Reply #1308 on: November 10, 2015, 11:33:27 pm »
I have had several games where I've had a base invasion as the first mission and several where I have never had a base invasion at all.

And YES some of these were in exactly the same places - Infact one game I lost a base invasion at the start of Febuary 2601, reloaded from Jan 1st 2601 save, and then didn't get another base invasion untill May 2603!

So My Guess is its just bad luck on your part - that or crappy random number generation on your PC.
Assuming that you didn't play everything 100% the same way( thus changing your random seed, or even better had save scumming on), the UFO you shot down the first time that gave you a retaliation mission probably didn't the second time, so you didn't get a base attack. Or you got a retaliation mission but the scouting UFO patrolled a different area and didn't find your base. Or it went by in the same way but failed the check to spot the base. There are a LOT of reason for things to be different a month down the line.

Does assaulting landed UFOs also prompt retaliations? Avoiding shooting down UFOs in the first month or two until you can take on the base attacks might be a good way to do things too.

Offline Roxis231

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95C - 29 Oct - Interfaces & Critical Fixes
« Reply #1309 on: November 10, 2015, 11:38:40 pm »
Assuming that you didn't play everything 100% the same way( thus changing your random seed, or even better had save scumming on), the UFO you shot down the first time that gave you a retaliation mission probably didn't the second time, so you didn't get a base attack. Or you got a retaliation mission but the scouting UFO patrolled a different area and didn't find your base. Or it went by in the same way but failed the check to spot the base. There are a LOT of reason for things to be different a month down the line.

Does assaulting landed UFOs also prompt retaliations? Avoiding shooting down UFOs in the first month or two until you can take on the base attacks might be a good way to do things too.

Actually that first game the base invasion was the first mission, when I reloaded I didn't see another Ship until late Feb. I think they just scouted the base - and yes I do use the agressive rettaiation  setting.

Offline Foxhound634

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95C - 29 Oct - Interfaces & Critical Fixes
« Reply #1310 on: November 10, 2015, 11:48:09 pm »
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It is best to make your hideout in an area that is "off the tracks" for the region you are in. I like Creta for Europe (and easy monitoring of North Africa and the middle east).

If you play on Superhuman, there is a 20% chance to spawn a retaliation mission when you shoot a UFO, so every 5 UFO shot down should be a retaliation (only if there wasn't one going on already). The "aliens" will then start patrolling the area to try to find you (hence the interest in setting up your base in a weird place).

Ok i'll try out some other locations, but the frequency and consistence of early base invasions compared to earlier versions, still seem weird since i've not encountered that previously. I'm also going to check if it has something to do with the save slot being from an earlier version, even though it has been overwritten in the current one. Also, i don't use save scumming or aggressive retaliation

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(See Ivan's Janitorial Staff base defence for a good example of wresting victory from a terrible situation)

The video got me thinking of some other questions/suggestions i have:

1) I like the idea of the commendations mod, but i think it requires its own .exe file and is therefore not compatible with x-piratez. Is that correct? (Also it would be cool if the medals were present on each gal's inventory screen, instead of having to visit a separate screen) :P

2a) I also like the melee weapons of x-piratez, but i'm still confused of the effectiveness of melee vs. armor. How much does armor reduce stun, because handles don't seem to be able to knock out academian security, and daggers/machetes never seem to pierce their armor (even when attacking from the rear), which makes them very situational. The rope has a very high TU cost so i guess it's only for keeping unconscious enemies unconscious. It seems that the most beneficial way to melee, is to only use cattle prods so you get a ton of slaves/interrogations. Even with their TU cost they hit hard and rarely miss, and just seem to make other melee weapons somewhat redundant, despite not having any skill/power bonuses. Am i missing something?

2b) In other mods, flamethrowers seem to merely set something on fire, without any initial damage, thereby killing the enemy too slowly. Is this also the case in x-piratez, even with armor's weakness to fire?

3) I think the technology pacing of weapons is a little off. You start out with flintlock weapons but almost immediately get assault rifles, combat shotguns, machine guns, sniper rifles etc. through loot. Yet it takes several steps of research to get stuff like the clockwork pistol and bayoneted musket, which are kind of inferior at that point (maybe also the x-bow). Also, some of the pistols in the game are about as accurate but less powerful than the flintlock pistols that you start with, so also seem redundant. This is also the case with some of the rifles and melee weapons, such as the short sword being inferior to the cutlass, despite having to research the short sword.

4) When intercepting ships, i find it impossible to tell which factions they belong to, which means is a problem for various reasons. One is that you cannot strategically avoid someone in particular, such as govt ships that penalize you. Another is that all the lore about the factions, their ships and missions (which i think are cool and all), just seems a bit redundant when they are not more significant when operating in the geoscape. E.g. it would be really nice to have an extended interception screen that listed the ship type's information, if the given ufopaedia entry is available. More information could eventually be present on the interception screen if you had also interrogated or researched your way to knowledge about the given faction.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 11:50:18 pm by Foxhound634 »

Offline Foxhound634

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95C - 29 Oct - Interfaces & Critical Fixes
« Reply #1311 on: November 10, 2015, 11:56:33 pm »
Well if I say I did nothing to mod this, you have the right to not believe me, naturally :P Also no new Nightly has been introduced.

No no it's not that i don't believe you, it's just that i have never before experienced early invasions, and given the repeated cases just makes me go all conspiratorial. I mentioned in my last post that i don't use aggressive retaliation but it would make so much sense if i did :)

Offline DracoGriffin

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95C - 29 Oct - Interfaces & Critical Fixes
« Reply #1312 on: November 11, 2015, 12:36:46 am »
1) I like the idea of the commendations mod, but i think it requires its own .exe file and is therefore not compatible with x-piratez. Is that correct? (Also it would be cool if the medals were present on each gal's inventory screen, instead of having to visit a separate screen) :P
Yes and no. It does not work correctly, but if you are a coder, you could compile them together to make it work but it's not easy (hence why it hasn't been done already).

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2a) I also like the melee weapons of x-piratez, but i'm still confused of the effectiveness of melee vs. armor. How much does armor reduce stun, because handles don't seem to be able to knock out academian security, and daggers/machetes never seem to pierce their armor (even when attacking from the rear), which makes them very situational. The rope has a very high TU cost so i guess it's only for keeping unconscious enemies unconscious. It seems that the most beneficial way to melee, is to only use cattle prods so you get a ton of slaves/interrogations. Even with their TU cost they hit hard and rarely miss, and just seem to make other melee weapons somewhat redundant, despite not having any skill/power bonuses. Am i missing something?

There's a lot of mechanics involved. The biggest thing about melee is that they scale in accuracy and damage with your pirate's stats, hence low str pirates will do pittance whereas high strength gals can beat down powered armor.

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2b) In other mods, flamethrowers seem to merely set something on fire, without any initial damage, thereby killing the enemy too slowly. Is this also the case in x-piratez, even with armor's weakness to fire?

The main thing about flamethrowers here is they A: ignore armor unless armor has resistance to fire (generally only Powered Armor does), they apply small damage and chance of a DoT (Damage of Time), set terrain on fire (which paralyzes AI pathing), and most importantly, applies huge morale damage. Flamethrowers are very useful (at least one gal should have one).

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3) I think the technology pacing of weapons is a little off. You start out with flintlock weapons but almost immediately get assault rifles, combat shotguns, machine guns, sniper rifles etc. through loot. Yet it takes several steps of research to get stuff like the clockwork pistol and bayoneted musket, which are kind of inferior at that point (maybe also the x-bow). Also, some of the pistols in the game are about as accurate but less powerful than the flintlock pistols that you start with, so also seem redundant. This is also the case with some of the rifles and melee weapons, such as the short sword being inferior to the cutlass, despite having to research the short sword.

The trade-off is not all factions use those weapons, so you'll run out of ammo quickly, whereas the other early tech guns you can produce and make your own ammo for (as well as your runts/brainers have to learn and start from somewhere). Also, X-Bow is not inferior, it's really good (especially the bow). And there's going to be lots of guns, but some unlock special ammo, different weights/sizes; so you'll have your favorites but nothing is truly "the best"; they are pretty normalized.

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4) When intercepting ships, i find it impossible to tell which factions they belong to, which means is a problem for various reasons. One is that you cannot strategically avoid someone in particular, such as govt ships that penalize you. Another is that all the lore about the factions, their ships and missions (which i think are cool and all), just seems a bit redundant when they are not more significant when operating in the geoscape. E.g. it would be really nice to have an extended interception screen that listed the ship type's information, if the given ufopaedia entry is available. More information could eventually be present on the interception screen if you had also interrogated or researched your way to knowledge about the given faction.

Some of that is intentional, some of it is just graphic limitations, and other is lack of graphic resources (Dioxine focuses on gameplay, rather than art as it takes much longer). You can contribute sprites and such if you like, easy way to make the changes you are seeking!

Also, some Govt ships actually are differentiated; make sure you are checking the Interception Window (if not going for landed ships).

The other suggestions are engine limitations; that's just not possible yet. OpenXcom Extended may eventually allow something like that, but currently, it's not able.

* These opinions are my own, and not the creator Dioxine's.

Also, check out the Bootypedia if you don't mind the spoilers.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95C - 29 Oct - Interfaces & Critical Fixes
« Reply #1313 on: November 11, 2015, 01:06:41 am »
Actually that first game the base invasion was the first mission, when I reloaded I didn't see another Ship until late Feb. I think they just scouted the base - and yes I do use the agressive rettaiation  setting.
So the mission generated in February was a retaliation? Man.. that's not lucky.. Although I'd take that over an early infiltration.. I've lost 4 countries so far in October :/ Thinking that after I destroy their base, I'll try to see if you edit a save to recover a country and set negative funding (to represent bribes to get them to work with you again)

As for this, I got ninja'd by DracoGriffin, but here's more info from my experience!

Ok i'll try out some other locations, but the frequency and consistence of early base invasions compared to earlier versions, still seem weird since i've not encountered that previously. I'm also going to check if it has something to do with the save slot being from an earlier version, even though it has been overwritten in the current one. Also, i don't use save scumming or aggressive retaliation

There are certainly optimal locations, and optimal "playing patterns", such as shooting down UFOs over a different region than the one your base is in, so hopefully the retaliation strikes in the other region (retaliations have a chance to be set for the region where the UFO was shot down, OR in the region where the interceptor came from. If you intercept in your base's region, then the retaliation, if generated, will certainly be in your region and likely find your base). A good pirate needs to study her targets!

Quote
The video got me thinking of some other questions/suggestions i have:

1) I like the idea of the commendations mod, but i think it requires its own .exe file and is therefore not compatible with x-piratez. Is that correct? (Also it would be cool if the medals were present on each gal's inventory screen, instead of having to visit a separate screen) :P
Yup, Piratez and Commendations unfortunately require different exes, but there's some talk of Commendations being integrated into the main code, which might mean Yankes would integrate it in Extended, and then we'd get medals and records for the gals :D

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2a) I also like the melee weapons of x-piratez, but i'm still confused of the effectiveness of melee vs. armor. How much does armor reduce stun, because handles don't seem to be able to knock out academian security, and daggers/machetes never seem to pierce their armor (even when attacking from the rear), which makes them very situational. The rope has a very high TU cost so i guess it's only for keeping unconscious enemies unconscious. It seems that the most beneficial way to melee, is to only use cattle prods so you get a ton of slaves/interrogations. Even with their TU cost they hit hard and rarely miss, and just seem to make other melee weapons somewhat redundant, despite not having any skill/power bonuses. Am i missing something?
You can calculate the amount of damage that different weapons do. For example, a machete with a maxed out gal:
- Base power: 20
- Strength bonus: 20% * 80 max strength = 16
- Melee bonus: 10% * 140 max melee  = 14
= max damage 50 -> damage range using EU formula: 0-100

So yeah, even with a maxed out gal, a machete doesn't do as much damage as a cattle prod. Compare with a axe though (50 + 0.7*80 + 0.1*140 = 120 -> damage range 0-240) and you can see that the cattle prod is far from the ultimate weapon, especially when you consider damage per TU since the cattle prod is very slow to use. It does have great accuracy and decent damage though, which makes it a great weapon to catch lightly armored targets with gals that don't have great melee accuracies.

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2b) In other mods, flamethrowers seem to merely set something on fire, without any initial damage, thereby killing the enemy too slowly. Is this also the case in x-piratez, even with armor's weakness to fire?

(Heavy) Flamethrowers are some of my favourite weapons, they do get things to die. If you hit all 8 times, you deal ~48 damage that ignores armor (assuming 100% damage, ie no special fire weakness resistance). That's enough to kill those annoying guys in personal armor in the early game, and it also is a great counter to cyberdiscs and other 2x2 units, since they take 4x the damage (it absolutely murders reapers since they have a weakness to fire).

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3) I think the technology pacing of weapons is a little off. You start out with flintlock weapons but almost immediately get assault rifles, combat shotguns, machine guns, sniper rifles etc. through loot. Yet it takes several steps of research to get stuff like the clockwork pistol and bayoneted musket, which are kind of inferior at that point (maybe also the x-bow). Also, some of the pistols in the game are about as accurate but less powerful than the flintlock pistols that you start with, so also seem redundant. This is also the case with some of the rifles and melee weapons, such as the short sword being inferior to the cutlass, despite having to research the short sword.
The short sword is nifty because you can put it in your belt, so a gal with a rifle can join a melee by spending only 4 TUs instead of 10 to pull a cutlass from the backpack. I think some of the weapons are there mostly for flavours, and also for being easy to maintain (you don't need anything to manufacture musket ammo, for example, so it may help early on if you are low on cash).

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4) When intercepting ships, i find it impossible to tell which factions they belong to, which means is a problem for various reasons. One is that you cannot strategically avoid someone in particular, such as govt ships that penalize you. Another is that all the lore about the factions, their ships and missions (which i think are cool and all), just seems a bit redundant when they are not more significant when operating in the geoscape. E.g. it would be really nice to have an extended interception screen that listed the ship type's information, if the given ufopaedia entry is available. More information could eventually be present on the interception screen if you had also interrogated or researched your way to knowledge about the given faction.

You can tell the government because most of their ships have red and blue lights on the interception picture. Once you find a government ship, be wary of shooting down anything in the same region. Similarly, some crappy crafts are only used by less well provided factions, like the rusty-bronze coloured ones being used by raiders and spartans. Beyond that, if they use the same ships, why would you be able to tell the difference between the academy and traders? Apparently you can't easily pain UFOs, so they all fly in default alloy colours, and any ways, if you want details, just research the hyperwave decoder ;)

Offline Axebeard

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95C - 29 Oct - Interfaces & Critical Fixes
« Reply #1314 on: November 11, 2015, 01:14:20 am »

Some of that is intentional, some of it is just graphic limitations, and other is lack of graphic resources (Dioxine focuses on gameplay, rather than art as it takes much longer). You can contribute sprites and such if you like, easy way to make the changes you are seeking!

Also, some Govt ships actually are differentiated; make sure you are checking the Interception Window (if not going for landed ships).

The other suggestions are engine limitations; that's just not possible yet. OpenXcom Extended may eventually allow something like that, but currently, it's not able.

I would be willing to do some ship graphics for the different factions. Can we replace the graphics of ships based on their factions or is that the part that's outside the realm of the engine currently?

Offline DeWolf

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95C - 29 Oct - Interfaces & Critical Fixes
« Reply #1315 on: November 11, 2015, 05:03:58 am »
The only problem that I actually see so far in this mod so far is that when you are in an interception when you get hit once your ships usually go all to red so it hides how much damage you really have.

Offline Alex_D

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95C - 29 Oct - Interfaces & Critical Fixes
« Reply #1316 on: November 11, 2015, 12:27:25 pm »
Finally I got to get to Mars

Spoiler:
So after a few more in-game months the dice roll spawned not one but two Cruisers with Star God Coordinators plus a base, all within a short month.

Capturing the first cruiser's SGC caused me some of my best troops to get badly injured, but in those long months I had the chance to maxout several gals across all bases so replacements were available. The other battles were plain destruction, no prisoners taken :) It took some base management to get the Conqueror building within reasonable time limits (less than a month or so, in one of my printer bases).

The battle after landing on Mars was fairly easy. Blasters plus Chinese Dragons made quick work on those open spaces outside the Conqueror. Note that the ship is not so blast proof as the Bonny, so careful aim with the Dragon or the gals still inside can die from the shock wave, or so it appears. :p

Funny the Conqueror has those escape hatches on the top level near some bunk beds. Nice detail!

Then it was the moment to go into the brain level. The last unit was killed (see attached game). Then deployment and start of a turn. A game re-load gave me an error I observed before also on other mods, which is upon reloading the game before the end of the first turn, all the soldier's guns are emptied (no magazines, ammo, etc). It was frustrating as I have to restart from the surface again. To replicate this from the save game, just kill the last unit, next screen and once deployed, save and reload. The ammo is gone! I don't know why it happens or if recent nightlies have fixed the problem.

For the last level I suggest get some inspiration from the Brain Level of Hellrazor's Hardmode mod. The 10x10 map is really difficult, more like an endurance race than a quick deployment. This is as the current 6x6 is easy, just scout for the Brain chamber and blast away.

Well, it was fun to play the mod. I'm sure I'll reply again in a couple of updates down the road.


Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95C - 29 Oct - Interfaces & Critical Fixes
« Reply #1317 on: November 11, 2015, 01:33:38 pm »
The only problem that I actually see so far in this mod so far is that when you are in an interception when you get hit once your ships usually go all to red so it hides how much damage you really have.
pics or it didn't happen. OXCom version associated with Piratez has some minor bugs, but from my experience, it's rather the other way around (it shows too little damage on the interceptor's image so you can get killed thinking you still have some HPs left)

I would be willing to do some ship graphics for the different factions. Can we replace the graphics of ships based on their factions or is that the part that's outside the realm of the engine currently?

It's impossible, plus they use same ship models (except faction-unique ships), plus why would you need a Hyperwave Decoder if everything was possible to tell by visual ident?

@Flamers and Cattle Prods: well, strange, I personally consider flamers to be extremely powerful while cattle prods too much of a hassle to be useful (I mostly use brass knuckles for stunning). Not saying that your choices are bad, saying that many a weapon might seem useless before you learn how to use it - but then again, you don't have to, I believe in creating many ways to achieve an effect thus everyone can choose their favorite :)

@Alex_D: Congratulations! Yeah the final mission isn't too hard, but that was the idea, the finale should be fun (The Hardest Mission should be somewhere earlier). I might make it a bit more unique in the future, though.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 01:36:12 pm by Dioxine »

Offline doctor medic

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95C - 29 Oct - Interfaces & Critical Fixes
« Reply #1318 on: November 11, 2015, 03:15:26 pm »
Will there be a better aye phone in the future?Even showing the current position of enemies instead of the previous turn would make them usefull when raiding star god's cruisers.

Offline Cristao

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.95C - 29 Oct - Interfaces & Critical Fixes
« Reply #1319 on: November 11, 2015, 03:40:11 pm »
Finally I got to get to Mars

Spoiler:
So after a few more in-game months the dice roll spawned not one but two Cruisers with Star God Coordinators plus a base, all within a short month.

Capturing the first cruiser's SGC caused me some of my best troops to get badly injured, but in those long months I had the chance to maxout several gals across all bases so replacements were available. The other battles were plain destruction, no prisoners taken :) It took some base management to get the Conqueror building within reasonable time limits (less than a month or so, in one of my printer bases).

The battle after landing on Mars was fairly easy. Blasters plus Chinese Dragons made quick work on those open spaces outside the Conqueror. Note that the ship is not so blast proof as the Bonny, so careful aim with the Dragon or the gals still inside can die from the shock wave, or so it appears. :p

Funny the Conqueror has those escape hatches on the top level near some bunk beds. Nice detail!

Then it was the moment to go into the brain level. The last unit was killed (see attached game). Then deployment and start of a turn. A game re-load gave me an error I observed before also on other mods, which is upon reloading the game before the end of the first turn, all the soldier's guns are emptied (no magazines, ammo, etc). It was frustrating as I have to restart from the surface again. To replicate this from the save game, just kill the last unit, next screen and once deployed, save and reload. The ammo is gone! I don't know why it happens or if recent nightlies have fixed the problem.

For the last level I suggest get some inspiration from the Brain Level of Hellrazor's Hardmode mod. The 10x10 map is really difficult, more like an endurance race than a quick deployment. This is as the current 6x6 is easy, just scout for the Brain chamber and blast away.

Well, it was fun to play the mod. I'm sure I'll reply again in a couple of updates down the road.


LOUDLY APPLAUDS!! I am envious that you got there. This is what I am working towards.. How many in-game years?