Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N7 16-Dec-2023 Flying Tiger, Hidden Tentacle

[doctor medic]

 i Do find it weird that to research tactical armor you have to first research advance WEAPON rumors.So they make better armor based on what they know on weapons?Make sense but it was a bit confusing while i was trying to find out how to make tactical armor the first time

[Arthanor]

If accuracy is definitely not a solution, we still have:
- Power: The axe's shot attack would be weaker than a hammer strike.
- TUs: It should use a lot more TUs than the melee strike of the axe (it represents a powerful "smash" on a wall, not a dynamic combat attack) and maybe more than the hammer's strike.
- Other costs: It could use more stamina: A hammer does a lot of the work by being heavy. The axe isn't so you have to use more of your strength = get more tired.

Between those 3, I trust you to find a way to make it useful while keeping the hammer relevant as well. You're the one who managed to fit a gazillion melee weapons in regular Piratez with just accuracy, melee use, TUs and power!

Also, I think it'd be worth it even if the hammer becomes a little bit less useful compared to the axe, just because right now, the axe is not really doing much compared to a cutlass. (Also maybe the hammer could get a melee strike to be able to attack in diagonals too?)

[jmf]

Hello, it's me again, it seems that there are problems , well i just leave what i made now and back pedal XD
anyway i had an idea: we have a starting suit for melee, another for support, this one is for ranged weapons,  a gear that gives a small aim bonus to ranged weapons but lowers reaction and/or movement by using more TU, i started by doing a obvious MGSV reference but it became is own thing, not sure about the colors though,i was thinking in some "camo" colors

[doctor medic]

Well sure,muskets arent really know for accuracy and cutlases have their place firm in early game.
Cant see something wrong with a little bonus accuracy.

[Dioxine]

Hello, it's me again, it seems that there are problems , well i just leave what i made now and back pedal XD
anyway i had an idea: we have a starting suit for melee, another for support, this one is for ranged weapons,  a gear that gives a small aim bonus to ranged weapons but lowers reaction and/or movement by using more TU, i started by doing a obvious MGSV reference but it became is own thing, not sure about the colors though,i was thinking in some "camo" colors

Hehehe, I like it as it is - starting colors being mostly black is a good rule of thumb. Red, Blue, Purple and Green  would be bad as there are advanced armors of predominantly that color. And the design is such you'll be able to tell it apart from other black armors.
Actually there is an early armor that gives Firing/Reactions bonus (guerilla), but it is not guaranteed to be acquired really early (requires either Spartans or Back to School)... I'll think about it, maybe it should be an early use for personal armor parts/academy stuff.
As for the axe, I don't trust the Cutlass to dependably kill power armor, so I don't think the axe is useless...

[jmf]

Thank you for liking my idea, i was thinking in a late game version inspired by the Ghosts form Starcraft

[Arthanor]

Hehehe, I like it as it is - starting colors being mostly black is a good rule of thumb. Red, Blue, Purple and Green  would be bad as there are advanced armors of predominantly that color. And the design is such you'll be able to tell it apart from other black armors.
Actually there is an early armor that gives Firing/Reactions bonus (guerilla), but it is not guaranteed to be acquired really early (requires either Spartans or Back to School)... I'll think about it, maybe it should be an early use for personal armor parts/academy stuff.
As for the axe, I don't trust the Cutlass to dependably kill power armor, so I don't think the axe is useless...

Yes, guerilla armor is an awesome armor for starting shooty gals. I use it extensively (along with some smokey for snipers, some tac vests for breachers and some pirate outfits for fodder (I mean scouts!) and some naked for gals that have to carry heavy stuff without penalty (You should see Crazy Iva, wearin' nothin' but a machine gun!). I actually really like the early variety you've got going now, between metal, tac vest, guerilla, smokey, gym suit, there's something for everyone.

As for the axe, I didn't realize it was that much more damaging than a cutlass.. But I did my analysis in Piratez. Will have to redo it. I've got a lot of success with billhooks on strong, brave gals as well. (Also, always hit power armor in the back!)

[jmf]

Yes, guerilla armor is an awesome armor for starting shooty gals. I use it extensively (along with some smokey for snipers, some tac vests for breachers and some pirate outfits for fodder (I mean scouts!) and some naked for gals that have to carry heavy stuff without penalty (You should see Crazy Iva, wearin' nothin' but a machine gun!). I actually really like the early variety you've got going now, between metal, tac vest, guerilla, smokey, gym suit, there's something for everyone.

As for the axe, I didn't realize it was that much more damaging than a cutlass.. But I did my analysis in Piratez. Will have to redo it. I've got a lot of success with billhooks on strong, brave gals as well. (Also, always hit power armor in the back!)

mmm, then a idea like mine would apply better in mid game since there's already the guerrilla armor, bummer, or can modfy something to be early and have less bonus

Also, power armor must be really crappy to be defeated by common weapons like an axe

[Cristao]

Just got to Assault Armor Research but need to find a few components. I did manufacture a few bikinis and amazon outfits - Next is learning how to get Witch's outfit and use voodoo ...

My custom stunning weapon and giving myself loadsa cash helps a lot. Even with those, this mod is very challenging and I doff my heart to those who didnt do mods. I am still wondering where it will take one to.

Latest Status

Weapons - Plasma
Base - Industrial Printer
Armour - Assault Armor
Vessel - Drakhan

[Dioxine]

mmm, then a idea like mine would apply better in mid game since there's already the guerrilla armor, bummer, or can modfy something to be early and have less bonus

Also, power armor must be really crappy to be defeated by common weapons like an axe

It's about game variety. Melee weapons would be useless if you could achieve the same or better results by just firing a burst from 1 tile away. They're more risky and more tiring to use, so there should be some major incentive to do so - like high damage.

[jmf]

It's about game variety. Melee weapons would be useless if you could achieve the same or better results by just firing a burst from 1 tile away. They're more risky and more tiring to use, so there should be some major incentive to do so - like high damage.

against power armor it will make snese if there advanced tech for melee like nanomachines, high frecuency or plasma, though i'm sure the mod already has those

[Yankes]

Can't we just have melee attacks affect terrain? (:

I have it on my TODO list. At some point it will be implemented.

[Solarius Scorch]

I have it on my TODO list. At some point it will be implemented.

Supergroovy.

Then I guess it doesn't make much sense to try to push it in earlier? What do you think, guys?

[Arthanor]

mmm, then a idea like mine would apply better in mid game since there's already the guerrilla armor, bummer, or can modfy something to be early and have less bonus

I think alternatives to runt and pirate outfit for the very beginning could be interesting. Pirate is good for melee, runt is good for weak gals (but now bad for scouts because of the stam regen ), but there is nothing for shooty gals where the weight of pirate outfits is more damaging than its benefits, and the accuracy debuff of runt outfits is not great. Actually, there is exactly "nothing", I tend to keep my shooty gals wearing no armor/outfit.

I have it on my TODO list. At some point it will be implemented.

Woot! Yankes to the rescue!

Supergroovy.

Then I guess it doesn't make much sense to try to push it in earlier? What do you think, guys?

Well, I'd still like a aimed/auto-shot on the axe for now, but that's something I can "cheat" into my games if you guys prefer to wait. Maybe I'll just experiment for fun.

[Dioxine]

against power armor it will make snese if there advanced tech for melee like nanomachines, high frecuency or plasma, though i'm sure the mod already has those

Some (and more planned), but the melee part of the balance has to be there from day one (so does the alternative option to engage powered armor - and your only other option, before voodoo, are high explosives), and it wouldn't make much sense to have flintlocks next to power swords. The rationale is, powered armor wasn't designed against melee, and what we see in the game as a melee hit, is actually a whole attack maneuver (irl, you don't slash a heavily armored enemy across their body - you either use a dedicated AP weapon, like warhammer, or trip them and stab into weak areas). None the less, I might add some "armor class" to powered armor... to make it harder to perform a successful attack. I don't want the power-armored enemies to be undefeatable except for some trick you need to know (the trick being, 'buy a Panzerfaust').

Well, I'd still like a aimed/auto-shot on the axe for now, but that's something I can "cheat" into my games if you guys prefer to wait. Was actually thinking that an auto-shot, "chop-chop" attack could be neat. Maybe I'll just experiment for fun.

Well it's always your choice, but it'd allow nice cheats (like using an axe with your melee stat around 20-30 due to wearing a non-melee armor).
As for making ranged armor a starting armor... I don't know (if so, then with some painful penalties - like Reactions and carrying capacity). Early research, yeah, but not from day one. 'No Armor' should also be a viable option IMO, it's not there just to be eye-candy. Plus you need some incentive to research stuff