Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N2 Apocalyptic Edition 22-Oct-2022  (Read 2803106 times)

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6555 on: December 27, 2018, 01:32:33 pm »
The base detection and attack mechanics are a bit complicated, but that's how it always have been.

1. A UFO (or a foot party) patrols in the general region (eg. North Africa) where your base is located. How do they know which region? I guess it's random, but you can call it gossip or someone tipped them off. If a UFO flies close to your base (no idea on the exact range) it has a *chance* (with bonus depending on base size) to discover it. There is no attack right away, the discovering UFO just flies away. I heard that if you shoot the UFO before they had a chance to detect you base you have a chance to interrupt the retaliation altogether - not sure if it's a planned feature or already implemented.

Already implemented, but not in the case of retaliation - they cannot be interrupted.

3. After the assault craft reaches the base, the defenses get a chance to fire. They need to do enough damage to destroy the attacking vessel. There is no crashing and AFAIK any damage that didn't destroy the ship is irrelevant*. So with anti-UFO defense you go big or not at all. Not sure if assault craft size matters for to-hit consideration.

Size does not matter, it's always the hit chance mentioned in defensive building's entry.

4a. If the assault craft is destroyed before landing, another one is sent in a couple of days, ad nauseam. Either your defenses fail at some point, or you get a steady stream of attacks. Basically you *will* have a base defense mission at some point, anti-UFO just gives you time to prepare and do it on your terms. Not sure if destroying an assault craft gets you points or not.

This is a vanilla bug. It does not apply to Piratez.

* As a point of reference, you need 2 flak cannons or SAM sites to reliably shoot down the smallest attack unit (the Torpedo - 400dmg). One of any of those has a chance to do it (on good roll) but it's in no way reliable.

Minor factions sometimes use even weaker craft.

Offline Ashghan

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6556 on: December 27, 2018, 06:39:51 pm »
Thanks for all those replies. They filled some of the information gaps I had regarding retaliation.

Also there are not many craft weaker than 400dmg. Only one that comes to my mind that could be used in a raid is the Raider Barque. Anything else is either too small to be considered assault (like Cutter or Fighter) or tougher than the Torpedo.


Offline Martin

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6557 on: December 28, 2018, 11:16:42 am »
You only want to shoot down ratmen, humanists, mercs and star gods (untill late game when you hunt for coordinator), everything else provides valuable loot and captives compared to how tough they are thus you want to let them in.

Offline Mitra Lightbringer

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6558 on: December 28, 2018, 01:39:29 pm »
What is even your angle, Mithra? Don't like base defenses? Well too bad, until you have the money and tech to set up Shrouds or massive stacks of defensive buildings (or at the very least, some interceptors), you will be getting these. I would advise stopping to imagine how the game is in your head, and instead accepting the reality of what it really is (this goes for melee and explosives as well; melee is risky, and explosives destroy loot; hardly unbalanced imo, at least in these aspects). Or maybe I was missing something in your argumentation, please enlighten me then.

No, both were against my first base, and it was probably 3 or 4, maybe even 5th month. I was just burnt out from base defences after that, as those are so long. I get combat stress per turn, too. And I was so annoyed attack happened 2 days before flak was built.

---posts merged. Pls stahp :)---

What is even your angle, Mithra? Don't like base defenses? Well too bad, until you have the money and tech to set up Shrouds or massive stacks of defensive buildings (or at the very least, some interceptors), you will be getting these. I would advise stopping to imagine how the game is in your head, and instead accepting the reality of what it really is (this goes for melee and explosives as well; melee is risky, and explosives destroy loot; hardly unbalanced imo, at least in these aspects). Or maybe I was missing something in your argumentation, please enlighten me then.

Ok, first thing I must say is I love this mod, and consider it a peak of xcom and postapocalypse genre. T a point I would beat up someone if he disagreed with me until he stoped moving. I dislike/like some things others or maybe even most people don't. So don't take this as an insult. I just asked if there was a way to save my base without reloading some old save, and things turned into "Why did you not add a whole army in a 3 buildings base, that has no storage or living space? Your fault for not liking it." If you accepted xcom as it is, you would have never made this mod (I would love to see some very early version of Piratez). As a matter of fact, Openxcom would not be made in the first place. Sure, I'm not saying my ideas would revolutonize the genre like previous two, but you can forgive me for wanting to skip, at least skim, if posible, on a few (base game) features. I use melee all the time, its so damn fun, with high risk/reward, and losing loot is hardly a point that makes me want to use explosives more. Sorry for typos, not using my keyboard.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 07:57:43 pm by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Ridаn

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6559 on: December 28, 2018, 02:29:03 pm »
I just asked if there was a way to save my base without reloading some old save
You can edit your save file with a Notepad, and just remove that mission, make sure there are no active ufos during saving though.

Offline Eddie

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6560 on: December 28, 2018, 08:19:39 pm »
There is one base defence mechanic that was not yet mentioned: If one mission detects your base but fails to attack it, the next mission will not send search Ufos but immediately send the attack Ufo. This happened to me with the ambulances. The ambulances detected my base, but I could shoot them down before they reached it. Later, a ratmen harassment spawned in the same region and proceeded right to the attack run, as the base was already flagged as "detected". There were no ratmen patrols to warn me of the attack.

I just asked if there was a way to save my base without reloading some old save

What answers were you hoping for? You have a base where you cannot put troops and base defence is not finished.
Sooo... besides cheating, intercepting the attacking Ufo is the only option. However, most base attacks use Ufos for the assault that are designed to be unstoppable, either by having ridiculus speed or big size. For example the ratmen do a foot assault. You are not supposed to be able to intercept this, but because of game mechanics a Ufo needs to be spawned for the attack to happen. The solution is a "fake" Ufo with ridiculous speed that is interpreted as a comm signal. If it is one of those, you cannot stop the attack.

If you are doing a challange run it is not your first playthrough. Then you should know this mod has scripted early base defence missions. The ambulances looking for your base are guaranteed to show up in april of the first year. If you don't research the hideout search order, they will show up again a few month later. They pick a base at random, so there is a good chance your newly built base will be a target. Even if the new base did not do anything and it is just a hangar. Because of this mechanic, building a new base at the end of march is unadvised. The ambulances are slow enough that you can shoot them down though (if you can detect them). There are several more of these type of missions (ratmen harassment, Necropirate harassment, etc.) that start quite early, so leaving a base blank is always a risk.

The burrow is cheap, builds fast, has housing AND vault space. You can build over it. It is a very cheap and convenient one building solution to enable a defence force in a base. The mod makes it very easy for you to have defenders at your base. If you don't build a burrow in a new base, I would simply call it bad strategy. Because the build over mechanic saves you build time, I tend to spam burrows in all my bases. If you say you cannot beat the attackers because you chose to limit yourself to muskets, well... Challange means you wanted a higher chance to loose stuff.

I was just burnt out from base defences after that, as those are so long. I get combat stress per turn, too.

You choose to do a challange and then complain that the fighting is not fun / gets tougher?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 08:28:54 pm by Eddie »

Offline Mitra Lightbringer

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6561 on: December 28, 2018, 09:34:11 pm »
Hm, I did not think about build over mechanics. Maybe burrow and an outpost to kick start a base is not a bad idea. Thanks, I'll know for the next time. Also, I am not doing challenge yet, I'm doing a prep run, so I do a bit of a less min/max, and more chilled game. I was not really paying heed to it. I know the ambulance stuff, I finished that. I know about base attacks, but this playtrough had way too many of them, and I don't like them in a first place. I had really rough couple of days, and this game was only good thing I had. Come on, lads, forgive your brother, I did not want to insult anyone. I make mistakes, we all do. Some are just sane enough not to post them on internet. Thank you all for your help, and sorry for wasting your time. Expecially Dioxine, I'm a big fan of your mod. You helped me not pull the curtains on myself. But seing how many people I annoyed maybe I should have...

PS: How do I merge posts, I can feel the lad who did it for me is already prepaired to use Voodoo on me next time?

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6562 on: December 28, 2018, 10:51:14 pm »
Nobody is insulted. Have 2 tips:
Tip 1: always put defenders in a base in the same month you started its construction. It is very unlikely it will be targeted in that month. Tip 2: dogs and cats make early hideout defences much more bearable.

Consciously or subconsciously, you betted on your hideout not needing protection (despite being advanced/experienced enough to have Flak Cannons) and you lost the bet. It's nothing bad. Just accept it. Sometimes the only thing that separates great winners from great losers is blind luck.

Offline Eddie

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6563 on: December 29, 2018, 01:15:31 am »
No hard feelings. Man, I know the feeling of the game giving you a hard time. That's why I don't feel too bad about reloading. I'm playing to have fun, not to get frustrated. If you don't feel like doing a base defence mission, just edit the save. No one will blame you, it's single player :-P

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - J10 - 28 Dec - Christmas Underground
« Reply #6564 on: December 29, 2018, 01:30:17 am »
New version uploadeded. Have funs, nya.

Offline FG

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - J10 - 28 Dec - Christmas Underground
« Reply #6565 on: December 29, 2018, 08:04:58 am »
New version uploadeded. Have funs, nya.
Much Appreciated! :)

niculinux

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - J10 - 28 Dec - Christmas Underground
« Reply #6566 on: December 29, 2018, 11:51:35 am »

v.J10 28-Dec-2018
[...]
- Civilians worth more points
[...]
That would mean less negative points or (hopefully) positive score, at least in some cases?

Offline Mitra Lightbringer

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - J10 - 28 Dec - Christmas Underground
« Reply #6567 on: December 29, 2018, 12:07:36 pm »
That would mean less negative points or (hopefully) positive score, at least in some cases?
In my experience, its free points in "help the Lokk'Nar" mission. They are amazing for scoring, I think you could make a month in positive (score) by just doing them, if no pogrom happens, of course. Hunting missions are a mixed bag, depends on who spawns where. Pogrom is (usually) in no way free points, but you get a great reward for (usually) great effort. Or you are left standing in ruins full of corpses. It sometimes happens, as it does in IRL pogroms.

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99J9 - 24 Nov - Needs More Muskets
« Reply #6568 on: December 29, 2018, 03:47:06 pm »
PS: How do I merge posts, I can feel the lad who did it for me is already prepaired to use Voodoo on me next time?

Just edit your old post, write "EDIT:" or something and then put in the new message.

If you are particularly focused on making sure the post is new, copy the text from the old post, delete the old post, then put the old and new text in a new post.
That's how I do it anyway. :)

Offline Abyss

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - J10 - 28 Dec - Christmas Underground
« Reply #6569 on: December 29, 2018, 05:22:15 pm »
Thank you all guys for a new version!
I have a long standing question though: why any major fraction that attack your hideout always equips the crew with plasma weapons? (highest difficulty, Ironman)