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Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N8 28-Apr-2024 Labyrinthus Noctis  (Read 3846577 times)

Offline Mathel

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7575 on: February 24, 2020, 08:20:03 am »
It is the file "mods\Piratez\Ruleset\Piratez_global.rul" that sets the grayed out options.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7576 on: February 24, 2020, 10:34:36 am »
Instant grenades are cheaty beyond any reason.

Feel free to use them, but remember you won't be playing Piratez any more.

Offline Rince Wind

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7577 on: February 24, 2020, 12:04:06 pm »
The AI should get preprimed grenades as well then. If they don't use them they'll blow up the loot. :D

Offline georg7490

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7578 on: February 24, 2020, 12:06:26 pm »
Instant grenades are cheaty beyond any reason.

Feel free to use them, but remember you won't be playing Piratez any more.

Yeah, yeah, sure. It's so "natural" to see if you killed the target or not - only on the next turn.... You know what? You should also make the same "very Piriate style" rule not only for grenades, but for the bullets too. Yeah, that would be so "very Pirate" experience, just make this option also locked for all players, here is how it should work (just the same as very Pirate non-instant-grenades):
1. when your soldier will fire from any weapon with any type of bullets - the bullets will fly to the enemy target and freeze around with no dammage effect to the target...
Spoiler:
2. The player should not know (in the same turn) what dammage did his bullet made (just like non-instant-granades, right?). So the player could just guess - if the first bullet dammage was enough to kill the target or not. I repeat, the player should not see the effect of his shots, so he should fire and fire a random number of bullets, 10 shots for example, just to play a damage lottery.
3. then the player should end the turn, and only here he will see - that the enemy target was killed from the 2nd bullet and the other 8 bullets was just fired to the empty cell. That's exactly the same how non-instant-grenades works for now. The player need to throw 1-10 grenades just to pass the turn and see that the target was killed from the damage of 2nd grenade, and the other 8 grenades were just blowing the air, also destroing the loot and the dead body and any usefull stuff around...
Oh boy, I can't feel myself a Real Pirate while I still can't "enjoy the very realistic and logicaly based rule of non-instant-bullets damage". Please make such a very pirate rule and ruin the mod to a completly fuked up condition... Non-instant-granades are simply not enough for that. The player should suffer completly: non-instant-granades and non-instant-bullets should live together in this mod and must be locked for sure... Damn lockers... ^_^
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 12:23:41 pm by georg7490 »

Offline Mathel

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7579 on: February 24, 2020, 01:36:33 pm »
There are grenade-like objects with instant explosions.
Stick grenade and Black Powder Bomb.

If you want instant explosions, you could use these or some kind of grenade launcher, mortar or rocket launcher.

I can see why instant explosions are cheaty.
From story perspective: Most grenades are timed, so the timer should not care if it hit the ground or not, only if the time has passed. And the timer has to be long enough on minimal setting for the grenade to go any throwable distance before exploding.
From gameplay perspective, there has to be some advantage to using guns. If all grenades explode instantly, then you could have most gals hiding behind a hedge with only one peeking out and letting the others bomb any enemies with impunity. Of course, if you miss with a grenade and drop it onto your own gals, you would not have an opportunity to pick it back up before it explodes.

Making grenades explode on impact will change the balance heavily, which is why it can be considered cheating.

While searching the rul. files, I discovered that the explosion in inventory is property that explosive items can have. I guess gals can't be bothered to secure the grenade handle after they remove the pin.

The AI should get preprimed grenades as well then. If they don't use them they'll blow up the loot. :D

Most of the proper grenades have "isExplodingInHands: true". That means they would explode before the AI gets to use them.

Offline Jinderius

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7580 on: February 24, 2020, 03:09:25 pm »
Next update is already out. Search the russian darkweb for K3...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf6fnsg1HlQ

Thanks man!

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7581 on: February 24, 2020, 06:32:28 pm »
Yeah, yeah, sure. It's so "natural" to see if you killed the target or not - only on the next turn.... You know what? You should also make the same "very Piriate style" rule not only for grenades, but for the bullets too.

And you should refrain from trolling. Since I assume you're intelligent enough to not spew such gibberish while being serious about it.

Edit:
Following answer is adressed not to the poster (since from my years of experience, trying sane dialogue in such situation never works) but to explain the issue to everyone else. A little history first: instant grenades was a later modification of the vanilla game. A modification that was hilariously OP in vanilla (esp. regarding smoke grenades), but that's not even the major point; it can still work in a mod built around it, and it was maybe interesting in pre-OXC days, where adding NEW weapons or minute-modification of existing ones was very hard.

The point is, that since from the start I had superior OXC tools to add as many weapons as I wished, I found full conversion to instant grenades as an uninteresting avenue of modifying the base game, since it's eliminating some of the tactical variety, giving nothing in return (the arcing, instant explosion effect can be produced in different ways, without the need to cut off the option of delayed effect). And last I checked, all OXC built-in mods to XCOM mechanics are voluntary, not compulsory.

Then, a (largely needless) mental experiment:
1. Assume we made all grenades instant.
2. This leads to immediate and major increase of their power, while limiting tactical options (like drop n' run).
3. The latter is a permanent loss, but the former still needs to be adressed.
4. This would be adressed with nerfs to their power and/or accuracy and/or speed.
5. Resulting in tactical options being even more curtailed, not to mean several types of grenades would be superflous to already-existing instant explosives.
6. Alternatively, if step 4) is not taken, it would boil down to classical "louder, bigger, faster, dumber".
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 06:55:50 pm by Dioxine »

Offline Ashghan

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7582 on: February 24, 2020, 07:56:53 pm »
  very realistic and logicaly based rule

Have you ever even held a grenade in your hand? That's how they work in the real and logical world. You throw a grenade and the other side still has the time to 'reaction shoot' you. Or even throw it back if you forgot to cook it.

Personally, while I found the instant grenade delightfully OP, I'm ok with them as they are. Most of the time Boom Fruit do their job perfectly and if I need more bang, then primed explosives are tactically deployed (or a mortar). What I found funny is that the Stielhandgrenate (Stick Grenade) actually did have a 4.5s fuse historically. Which would make it a primed explosive, but with a set 0 delay.

Offline Rince Wind

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7583 on: February 24, 2020, 09:29:16 pm »


Most of the proper grenades have "isExplodingInHands: true". That means they would explode before the AI gets to use them.
Yeah, but the guy wants to change that as well.

Offline Rubber Cannonball

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7584 on: February 24, 2020, 09:53:33 pm »
Maybe I just should have told him about debug mode and the "player wins" buttons available there.  ::)

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7585 on: February 24, 2020, 11:11:00 pm »
While searching the rul. files, I discovered that the explosion in inventory is property that explosive items can have. I guess gals can't be bothered to secure the grenade handle after they remove the pin.

Securing the handle is called unpriming :)

Offline unarmed drifter

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7586 on: February 26, 2020, 03:43:37 pm »
Next update is already out. Search the russian darkweb for K3...

i downloaded it, but i'm reluctant to use it. Any info on save compatibility issues?

Offline Ashghan

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7587 on: February 26, 2020, 04:31:57 pm »
Seriously? You're asking about compatibility of an illegally obtained copy of an unreleased version of the mod in the mod's official thread? I applaud the audacity, though not the lack of common sense. ;)

Offline Meridian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7588 on: February 26, 2020, 04:38:27 pm »
K3 is as legal/illegal as K2 or any other version was. No need to use strong words.

To answer the question.... yes, saves from K2 are compatible.

Offline Ashghan

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7589 on: February 26, 2020, 05:43:06 pm »
No need to use strong words.

That's why there's an emote at the end. Plus the whole Hobbes issue makes is slightly shady.