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Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N7 16-Dec-2023 Flying Tiger, Hidden Tentacle  (Read 3689656 times)

Offline Martin

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5100 on: January 23, 2018, 01:06:58 pm »
When you think about it in fluff, it is still not impressive.

The marine would better off carrying a lasgun in many situations, simply because it can be recharged from his powerpack in his armour. Strange that they don’t carry it as an sidearm.

Offline HT

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5101 on: January 23, 2018, 05:41:32 pm »
Are you asking for Games Workshop to do a sensible thing?

That's unfortunately harder to accomplish than having the average XCOM recruit hit a target with the starting rifle.  ;)

Offline Martin

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5102 on: January 24, 2018, 10:58:41 am »
Last time I checked they were in the pump phase of pump and dump, while it’s a dick move, it’s still kind of sensible thing to do

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5103 on: January 24, 2018, 11:26:14 am »
Enough Heresy now.

Stick to the topic at hand.
While it's arguable what should be limited via master-crafted parts and what not, it's still a matter of in-game time at what point you get what kind of weapon.

Progression is the way to success so it's just natural that your shotguns get bigger and better over time.
Ol' SG -> Hv. SG -> O.G.R.E. SG -> M.C. SG -> Boom Gun -> Splatty/ Space Ranger SG -> Plasma Blunderbuss / Hellgun.

The same is true for all those pistols.
Death Blossom is a very versatile gun, has piercing ammo that sets on fire and shotgun-like chem ammo.
Later it gets an additional piercing ammo for even more oomph. Don't forget that this gun is not too accurate!

Mastercrafted guns are excluded since the item itself is very very rare to get (as stated by scrapping the super plasma pistol or hideout assaults) so you'll never have more than 1 of each. Due to how scarce they are, the K-Blunderbuss just wins in comparison to the Super Shotgun / Bossar / Commando Rifle. Reason: 3 types of ammo.

Offline Martin

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5104 on: January 24, 2018, 06:01:09 pm »
Year and few months ago, you went straight from light cannons and lasguns to gauss weaponry, bypassing everything in between.

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5105 on: January 24, 2018, 08:12:34 pm »
Visit Nearby Town + Call a Meeting --> Our Culture --> Violence --> Bounty Hunting --> Scoped Magnum --> O.G.R.E.
(  )
Craft Railgun is around the same level as boom gun. The problem is that if you have naval cannon, you mostly need the gauss weapons to get craft railgun: so it depends on whether you can take on ships dropping heavy gauss/sniper gauss and whether they show up.
(  )
Seagull and Meteor are nice when multiple warships get spawned or if you want to take out something your other weapons can't touch
(  )
In the later game going lascannon + plasma spitter wreaks havoc with pretty much everything, though. :p

Not all bounty missions are created equal and there are at least 3 categories of bounty missions and I guess the RNG has really been hating me. Jack's missions are the ones that give you Naval Gun and Ogre I believe... and those were always in the shortest supply. I was sometimes going several months without jack's missions, and even then I was only getting the 75 tokens ones.

(meanwhile goblin zaxx was having me blow up 2 barns monthly and giving me preacher and cave missions - I chewed all the way through the zaxx trophy tree in .99H1 before I ever saw the Ogre option show up)

Sniper and Heavy Gauss?
Are you kidding me?
They practically flood my base stores. Enemy Hideout means a Supply Ship will be landing there multiple times per month. I hit the supply ship when it lands. I just keep hitting them over and over again.
(I dont know about you but I dont ever destroy enemy hideouts, I milk them for supply ships and ill even conduct base assaults just to get access to tech and VIP... I hear there is a penalty now for not breaking the hideout but most likely id still come out positive unless the enemy surrendered)
Its also a good source of bodyguard armor parts, lots of baby nukes, and so many gauss weapons I have an overabundance of gauss parts that I basically don't know what to do with (as many as I have of laser parts). At least the Heavy Gauss gives me plenty of heavy power couplings. Ive also got Davy Crocketts coming out of my ears and I even invest in getting the non-nuclear warheads because its such a cheap weapon.
And since I can get gauss so reliably I have no compunction about stripping them all down after researching them because its going to take so long before I can actually use them. When I crack gauss its easy enough to just save the gauss guns I get from the supply ship I hit right before that. That bottleneck is the only thing that keeps me from working up that tech tree even faster.

Meteor - yeah thats the name for the mutant alliance missile. Love that thing. Three shots @ 80 damage and its very accurate.

Also its worth mentioning the Ramjet gun might be expensive. But if ive got cash to burn... its also a very cool/pretty looking weapon and the sprite always has been.
Ramjet gun might have less shots, but it shows up early on the buy list. By then I usually have the targeting package too. Most ships only got one Heavy slot anyway so its the Light weapons that will mop up shipping.

Multiple Warships? TBQH im not that worried about self defense.
If they wanna attack my base ill let them in, I dont even build defenses until the armoury tower and even then its only for manufacturing.
Im a real pirate about not getting up off my butt to wipe out everything, ill just go hit one ship and eat it. Maybe if another one lands. And its easy enough to just let the big stuff like Cruisers and Battleships walk on by (Bombers are vulnerable enough to hit though).

The air combat AI has not evolved in openxcom yet so im not worried about being intercepted by ships if I attack one of them (with any others part of the same faction within a certain radius changing course to intercept then forced into air combat with them). And I dont have to worry about them tracking my flight path back to my base in realtime and then going right for the base. Those would be realistic outcomes if we were to take the Serenity setting as an example.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 08:35:55 pm by RSSwizard »

Offline cc

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5106 on: January 24, 2018, 08:25:13 pm »
Not all bounty missions are created equal and there are at least 3 types of bounty missions and I guess the RNG has really been hating me, because I think its the Jack's missions that give you Naval Gun and Ogre... and those were always in the shortest supply. I was literally going several months without jack's missions and then getting the measly like 75 tokens ones.
Chances for the missions are the same (and independent from each other), so yeah, RNJesus hates you.

Sniper and Heavy Gauss? Are you kidding me?
You misread me. The problem with Naval Gun is that you can get the superior Craft Railgun shortly after, only needing the gauss weapons. This gives the naval gun a short lifetime if there's no bases around (taking on heavier ships) and pretty much none with them. So yeah, it all depends on what spawned.

By the way, you mentioned issues with taking down Battleships. Two Kraken with Railguns and two Nightmares with Meteor + Plasma Spitter take them down quite well. I'd expect the same for Silver Towers, but the bastards won't pop for me.

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5107 on: January 24, 2018, 08:29:56 pm »
Getting intercepted sounds really nasty. I just can't see 'how' this could work without massive coding efforts and rebalancing of several ships.
If the A.I. can go into dogfight with any of your vessels in flight I would like to know:
> How many shots do those A.I. hunters have?
> How many different weapons can they shot at you?
> Do we get a 'reversed' crashed vessel scenario? - If yes, how do you roll injuries across the team and dice-rolls for killed hands?
> How do you trigger enemy interceptors?

Those questions are just a few that come to mind. I wouldn't like my unarmed dropship to get dunked by a RNG Interceptor blowing down the whole loot/equipment/personal because of this feature.
I can imagine the original game designers discussed this feature and simple scrapped it due to how unreliable/frustrating it could turn out.

It's also a feature the player does not benefit from. It's simple a feature to artifical increase the difficult setting even more on top of a very challenging experience.

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5108 on: January 24, 2018, 09:18:20 pm »
If the A.I. can go into dogfight with any of your vessels in flight I would like to know:

Its a feature that would increase difficulty and surprise players, and make it seem believable. And would make you consider 3d chess when it comes to air combat because then it makes you wonder "Is this a trap, am I going to get dogpiled on for going after this particular freighter".

Also for simplicity sake I wouldnt suggest this being applied for any scenarios other than:
* Air Combat - faction friendly ship was shot down or destroyed
* Air Combat (lower priority) - faction friendly ship was attacked but not downed
* Enemy Hideout - faction base was attacked and destroyed
* Enemy Hideout (lower priority) - faction base was attacked but not destroyed
* Air Patrol (low priority) - one of your ships was detected by their radar

notice that im also only suggesting this apply to factions, so if this dynamic was turned on in vanilla game it would literally only apply to "sectoids" or "snakemen" or "floaters" even though they are all managed by the central martian intelligence...
but in Piratez and other mods it can make sense that the Traders Guild or the Academicians or the Raiders honestly only give a crap about themselves and snicker when the piratez start poaching the whales of other factions.

It actually would be too over the top to do a "worldwide manhunt" where literally anybody who has an interceptor is coming after you in response.
----
It would be limited to ships designed for that thing like Fighters... so there would be an Aggression rating... with anything above 0 meaning that this shipping/ufo may be game for trying to attack you in midair... a high value means "this is what this ufo does".

To confine the radius for this checking it would have to be determined when the provocation occurred, any ship with an aggression rating has a retaliationRadius for which they can be called upon to respond. If the incident occurred too far away then they will not divert course. Default value if uninitialized should probably be 2 or 3 times the radar range of that interceptor.

Also high priority, low priority types of response would adjust the effective aggresison rating. High priority being at the full value, Low Priority subtracting a static amount from it (id suggest the same amount that constitutes the threshold where there is a 100% chance of a response, so that only shipping that has interception in its job description will even bother to go after a low priority retaliation). So for example if 10 is the point where a shipping would always respond, with each point below representing a multiple of 10% chance... then a low priority call to respond would subtract 10. Ships that might intercept but aren't really interceptors would have values like Aggression: 5 to 9 and they would only get involved if it was important. The regular definition of an interceptor would probably be around Aggression: 15 so it would always respond, but for a low priority response there'd only be a 50% chance (aggression 15 minus 10) that it would get involved.

Likewise it would also give a reason to have cloaking devices installed on ships, allowing a cloaking rating to be given, so that more stealthy ships are less likely to be potentially gone after. Provides a game dynamic to this principal (just how stealthy is your ship).

How many shots?
All shipping that have weapons use Craft Beam Laser of varying strengths and batteries, which is obvious from the sound effect and the instant beam effect displayed when they shoot you. Since these are ships typically of alien design or incorporating standardized alien tech they have always had Infinite Shots. There is such a thing as superior technology.

While you can often find gauss cannons, 50mm cannons, 25mm cannons, plasma spitters and other equipment in these vessels it is not apparent that they are using them at all, and its the onboard inseparable built-in space weapons which are being used.
(this is something that I recognize really is prohibitive to code, giving enemy ships custom projectiles and sound effects for their air weapons, determining how many shots they have left and then placing that many in a special inventory item on its map, etc... not gonna happen)

Reversed crashed Vessel?
Historically every time your aircraft is shot down it is destroyed. You lose the craft, all of the crew, all of the items and all of the craft weapons. There isn't even a mission debriefing, the craft is just gone. Figured this was obvious. Their shipping crashes... yours limps home... destroyed in both cases means it explodes in a brilliant fireball.

Unarmed Dropship?
An additional label to counter Aggression rating could be applied to cancel it out, at least unless it fits certain criteria like using it to shoot down one of their friendly shipping. The name for the label doesnt matter. That way if you have an Airbus or Airvan these seem civilian enough to not go after, so their IFFfriendly tag can be really high and enemy interceptors wont bother with it.

Again one reason for having retaliatory air combat is adding consequences for taking actions. Strategy - making sure the cat's away when you pounce on their cheese. Waiting until there are no enemy interceptors around when you go to attack one of their bases. Actually watching what is going on and taking your shot when the time is right.

An Airbus or Skyranger may have a good IFFfriendly rating but when it comes to a high priority retaliation it might not be enough to prevent an enemy interceptor from possibly going after it (if the interceptor in response range has aggression 15 and 10 is the threshold of absolute response, and you have IFFfriendly: 11 then it would still leave an Aggression: 4 chance of it coming after you. But in a Low Response situation the total effective aggression against that ship would be -6 and thus it would never go after it just on general principal). Thats how id code it anyway.

You are pirates after all, most wanted, in the commission of a capital crime and considered dangerous - a threat and if they have the resources available to instantly thin your numbers and teach you a lesson then I think they'd take it.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 09:25:56 pm by RSSwizard »

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5109 on: January 24, 2018, 09:22:43 pm »
Just going to drop this topic.  (Meridian's already started some code to allow UFOs to intercept you, WIP)

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5110 on: January 24, 2018, 09:26:57 pm »
Just going to drop this topic.  (Meridian's already started some code to allow UFOs to intercept you, WIP)
Awesome, I was only trying to provide some insight, and I was responding to ethereal_medic.

Edit: to mergepost

I will also drop these graphics here that ive helped remaster. The new palette change introduces alot of darker colors and this is an awesome thing but it does tend to wash out some sprites in key areas. Mostly wooden stocks and some dark grey items.

Also somebody started using the final color range (#16) and that means trouble - a few items like the Axe were showing up in the bootypedia with bright blue colored pixels on them (and it was not necessary to use that color range for their colors either!). So the graphics here correct those issues. A little bit of darkening was applied in some cases to keep the colors from remapping inefficiently, but its still pretty nice for them. As far as I can tell everything else in the game resources works just fine and doesn't need to be touched.

Ive also remastered the xcom2 sonic weapons to have more greenish-teal colors like the ones from tftd, they are located in the zip file with the other graphics (the image here is for preview purposes). Im not sure where those weapons show up in piratez, im guessing in the "they came from the sea" missions. Maybe the new coloration was intended, but I really liked the original colors and I know its hard to translate those into the ufo palette.

A couple items received personal touches and have been altered in other ways so I didnt include them in the zipfile.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 10:00:54 pm by RSSwizard »

Offline BBHood217

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5111 on: January 25, 2018, 03:34:42 am »
Jack's missions are the ones that give you Naval Gun and Ogre I believe.

They're Goblin Zaxx prizes, actually.

Meteor - yeah thats the name for the mutant alliance missile. Love that thing. Three shots @ 80 damage and its very accurate.

They're even better than that, they actually do 175 damage with a x1.5 modifier to shields.  However, you're thinking of the wrong alliance; they're actually missiles provided by the *Human-Reticulan Cooperation*.

Offline Poulpiche

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5112 on: January 25, 2018, 10:51:40 pm »
Hi everyone

Do you know if there's a any mod like Streamlined Armor Manufacturing that could  permit build ships from scraps ?

thanks in advance

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5113 on: January 25, 2018, 11:25:37 pm »
I prefer to use a sheet of paper and just scribble down the recipe for the items needed to produce the vessel I need.
Streamlined Ship Manufacturing might be too early to consider useful. At some point you can buy all parts from the black market.
Armor is different with many components requiring alot of tech to be produced in the first place.

Offline Poulpiche

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99I1 - 26 Dec - Spirit of Christmas
« Reply #5114 on: January 25, 2018, 11:52:44 pm »
Above all, it is to avoid having to launch the manufacture of parts such as the light generator, speed up time, return to the factory, start the manufacture of the ship, see that parts are missing, buy or transfer parts, wait for them to arrive, relaunch the construction of the ship, speed up time, make a mission, transfer the ship once finished elsewhere, etc....

i have to make this dozens times for sabre and dragon. I'm sorry, I find that quite unfunny