Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - J17A - 8 Sep - I Stab At Thee!!! (reloaded)  (Read 1019586 times)

Offline Zharkov

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 402
    • View Profile
Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
« Reply #285 on: June 26, 2015, 04:32:51 pm »
There seem to be some orphaned strings in 0.92

Offline Dioxine

  • Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 5181
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
« Reply #286 on: June 26, 2015, 05:16:28 pm »
There seem to be some orphaned strings in 0.92

That's an upgrade problem, not an inherent problem. Normally these strings would be invisible since they're 0 research cost, no-report techs and would be researched automatically and instantly on the moment of meeting prerequisites.

Offline Arthanor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2560
  • XCom Armoury Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
« Reply #287 on: June 26, 2015, 08:46:34 pm »
Just dropping here to build on something you mentioned in Meridian's FMP LP.

Did you change the IED in Piratez Extended? You mentioned making a more powerful and cheaper per bang alternative, which I assumed to be the IED (It's an improvised device afterall).

But comparing it to high explosives, it's 25% more expensive (10k vs 8k) and a bit less than 20% more bang (130 vs 110). That extra 20 damage might be worth it against power armoured enemies, but in general, knowing that your 110 damage HE Pack will explode now (no standing still and shooting) was worth it, and in the financially difficult early stage, 8k is already expensive.

If you had something cheaper than a HE pack, with similar (maybe a bit lower?) damage, I'd have gone for that. It would be cool too as an early game "best choice", because it would add to the primitive vibe of the starting pirates to rely on traps.

Offline Dioxine

  • Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 5181
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
« Reply #288 on: June 26, 2015, 09:45:35 pm »
IED's gone in Extended. New deal of the day is Landmine (90 HE proxy for 4k). Not sure if it's cheap enough, as compared to Frag Grenade (2250 for 65 HE). Maybe the latter is simply too expensive, with Bombs etc.

Offline Arthanor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2560
  • XCom Armoury Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
« Reply #289 on: June 27, 2015, 05:23:20 am »
Ah! Good to know! I still haven't upgraded yet. I think it looks about right but the grenade looks a bit expensive, assuming there are still black powder bombs which are cheap and instant (even better than 100% end of turn).

Offline Zharkov

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 402
    • View Profile
Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
« Reply #290 on: June 28, 2015, 12:32:11 pm »
And here we go, the pinnacle of the SuperSlave research line: The Gals' very own Ironman armor for Piratez 0.92!

« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 12:36:51 pm by Zharkov »

Offline DracoGriffin

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
    • View Profile
    • Steam: DracoGriffin
Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
« Reply #291 on: June 28, 2015, 09:33:19 pm »
What type of feedback are you looking for from playtesters, if any?

Offline Dioxine

  • Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 5181
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
« Reply #292 on: June 28, 2015, 11:42:38 pm »
Well, you're free to criticize anything and I am free to discard or include your suggestions, that's all there's to it :) I can only guarantee that every opinion will be heard and considered.

Offline XOps

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 219
  • Guy who drowns first
    • View Profile
Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
« Reply #293 on: June 29, 2015, 05:17:45 am »
Well, you're free to criticize anything and I am free to discard or include your suggestions, that's all there's to it :) I can only guarantee that every opinion will be heard and considered.

Spoken like a true artist.  :)

Offline Zharkov

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 402
    • View Profile
Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
« Reply #294 on: June 29, 2015, 04:48:46 pm »
Ax the "advances" or change to "advanced", I think, but I am drunk.

Offline DracoGriffin

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
    • View Profile
    • Steam: DracoGriffin
Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
« Reply #295 on: June 30, 2015, 11:27:37 pm »
Some initial feedback:

  • Gameplay Balance
     
    • Items
       
      • Fistycuffs - Weight - 3 weight seems awfully heavy; was hoping to let my low-Str Runty gals carry but grenades/bandages often take priority. Suggestion: Lower to 2 or 1 weight?
           
      • Tac Vest - Resistance - 90% vulnerability to laser (10% increase from Unarmored/Pirate/Runt) doesn't make a lot of sense in consideration of high cost (Purchase/Manufacture), minimal armor increase, and statistic reduction. Suggestion: Revert to 80%?

    • Missions
       
      • Pogroms - Difficulty - More difficult with Sneaky AI on (AI appears to prioritize killing civilians as they try to "hide" from player units). Less difficult with Sneaky AI off (AI appears to prioritize "confronting" player units, instead of attacking civilians). Suggestion: None really, just reporting my experiences. I kind of like turning Sneaky AI on for pogroms, and off for regular missions.

  • Sound
     
    • Melee - Volume - Melee "hit" sound is very low, almost always drowned out by the default melee "[attack/miss]" sound. Suggestion: Increase melee "hit" sound, as the actual melee "[attack/miss]" (aka the WHIFF noise) sound is at a good volume.

  • Spelling
     
    • Basic Armor - Multiple - Some screens appears as "Basic Armor", others as "Warrior". Intentional? See Warrior Armor.
       
    • Guerrila - Multiple - Correct form should be "guerilla" or "guerrilla", unless intentional?
       
      • Bootypedia entry - "X-Section: 2." comment is not uniform with all other armor entries of flavor text then effect text. (E.g., Runt -> "... X-Section: 2. Energy Recovery Penalty." / Pirate -> "... X-Section: 2. Melee Dodge %: REACTIONS*0.5.")

    • Handcannon Bullets - Multiple - Manufacture screen says "Handcannon Rounds" but produces "Handcannon Bullets" in inventory screens, other ammunition production does not seem to have this disjunction. Intentional? See Handcannon Rounds.
       
    • Handcannon Rounds - Multiple - Manufacture screen says "Handcannon Rounds" but produces "Handcannon Bullets" in inventory screens, other ammunition production does not seem to have this disjunction. Intentional? See Handcannon Bullets.
       
    • Molotov Cocktail - Bootypedia entry - "... don't forget to lit it up before throwing ...", lit should be light.
       
    • Spike Rockets - Bootypedia entry - "Crude rockets based on built from junk parts and home-made explosives, ...", first sentence should be rewritten. Suggestion: "Crude rockets [cobbled together/recklessly built] from junk parts and home-made explosives, ..."
       
    • Warrior Armor - Multiple - Some screens appears as "Warrior", others as "Basic Armor". Intentional? See Basic Armor.

  • Miscellaneous
     
    • Guerrila - Bootypedia entry - appears in Bootypedia at start of game without research, unless intentional?
       
    • Oldworld City Names - Singapore, Jerusalem. Intentional?
Edit: As an aside, in my first playthrough I have been repeatedly stuck with Govt "ships" and little raider/Academy/Trader/whathaveyou activity. The AI gets "points" for these Govt missions, but if I respond I lose (nearly lose-lose situation, but loot/hostages mitigates some). Feeling a bit of Catch-22... so attacking the government does not increase "terror" points, but decreases them; which I am assuming is because the assorted powers-that-be (Star Gods and all) begin "cracking" down on crime/piracy with increased patrols/military/etc, making the countries/cities feel "safe" instead of terrorized by scantily-clad Gals. Is this rationale correct? Also, what do the points from Govt ships/missions produce in the long run? Or is it safe to assume all "alien" points (Academy/Trader/Raider/etc) are counted against the Gals, and getting consistent Govt spawns is just a "That's XPiratez, baby!" ?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 11:42:07 pm by DracoGriffin »

Offline Dioxine

  • Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 5181
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
« Reply #296 on: July 01, 2015, 01:17:18 am »
Thanks for pointing out the language errors. As for the other stuff:

- Fistycuffs: Fair points, but I'm trying not to go under 3 weight because of the throwing formula. Only the lightest ammo clips weigh 2 units, but I can't think of a way a player could abuse throwing these. It would be a bad idea to give fistycuffs to a weak gal, anyway - the damage strongly scales up with Strength, with the base damage being far too low for a Stunning item to be effective. Better give 'em a dagger or a handle.

- Tac Vest: The basic Piratez formula is that you lose 5% Laser Res per 5 points of armor, if everything else stays the same. Considering frontal armor, 90% is almost overtly generous, but on the other hand, you can't guarantee you'll be hit in the frontal plate... I'll increase it to 85%, should average off just fine.

- Sound issues: I haven't noticed this problem myself. I am also completely unskilled at that kind of things, but I will add this to 'issues' list - maybe someone, at some point, will decide to fix this.

- Old world city names: well, yeah, they're still named as they once were. So are the continents, for example. Not everything changes.

- Govt spawning: Well, randomness! The spawning of Govt missions is very rare, you just got unlucky.

As for the negative score: yeah this can be interpreted as you did. It can also be interpreted that piracy is a neccessary evil for the Govts - it hurts the big players (Traders etc.); also the Govts are forced to cooperate with the Mutant Alliance, and the Mutant Alliance uses affiliated pirates and bandits as a stick (the obedience of mutant populations being the carrot) in negotiations with the Govts. However, when said pirates start to hurt a Govt directly, the equation changes. The language that the "govts are scared of you" should be taken with a big grain of salt ("official truth"); in reality they have absolutely no reason to be (unless the Mutant Alliance would hire you to assassinate a high-level official, that is, but they'd have to be desperate to do such a thing...), they pay you some pocket money as a political convenience... while always being able to deny any collusion.

Offline DracoGriffin

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
    • View Profile
    • Steam: DracoGriffin
Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
« Reply #297 on: July 01, 2015, 03:23:01 am »
Fistycuffs - If throwing fistycuffs at enemies did some type of damage, I could see that being abused. But since it doesnt, does the weight matter? The reason I put 'em on my Runties is for couple reasons: knocking out units that "wake" up behind my main line, when I need to swarm a target with stuns, and lastly it's a great way to train skills on armored units then kill them if they don't go down. (Kind of like in Ironman Impossible nuXCOM where you let rookies take low shots first, but ensure you have explosives or veterans able to put the target down if it survives or trainees miss.)

Player could repeatedly throw objects to train throwing accuracy, especially as there are items in Piratez that utilizes throwing accuracy skills. In X-COM, throwing accuracy did not affect secondary stat growth, but not sure if that was changed in openXCOM, or if it was changed in Piratez. Totally forgot to test that out.

Tac Vest - I haven't bothered using it honestly, I couldn't justify the $$$ for it and unlocked the manufacture waaaay after Smokey Ops Gear & Warrior Armor. I doubt I'll use it even if Laser Res was set to 80%; as again, takes too long to research, costs a hefty price Black Market or rare Personal Armor parts (rare in my playthrough anyway), and Smokey Ops feels like a better upgrade as it spreads armor around, eliminates smoke vulnerability (nothing like throwing out smoke nades and Gals swarming out of the smoke into the blind enemy), only affects stamina, cutting/acid res, and NV 9 (not sure if this truly works on this armor as "Our Abilities" entry states Gals have inherent NV 12?).

To see myself using it, perhaps having it as a downgrade of Guerrilla armor; +accuracies, another Resistance; to make it a viable early-game alternative to smokey ops.


Sidenote: Do personal flashlights (from Our Abilities Bootypedia, default hotkey: L) actually affect the AI in any way? I've replayed the same missions with lights ON or OFF the entire time, on Day and Night missions, and haven't noticed any difference. (E.g., Mission 1a: Day, Lights On. Mission 1b: Day, Lights Off. Mission 2a: Night, Lights On. Mission 2b: Night, Lights Off.)

Offline Dioxine

  • Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 5181
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
« Reply #298 on: July 01, 2015, 07:33:59 am »
Well, the fact you're not using a particular armor doesn't mean it's useless - it depends on priorities, personal taste and playthrough specifics. Maybe you're right but I'd rather avoid any knee-jerk reactions. I will think about these issues, though.

Throwing items repeatedly doesn't work in OpenXcom. Throwing is trained, AFAIK, only when you damage someone with a grenade-type weapon. As for the secondary stat growth, it's pointless - one melee/ranged/grenade/psionic hit is enough to trigger it, and you won't get a bigger growth no matter what else you do. However, hitting people multiple times to get a bigger melee skill increase is naturally beneficial.

As for the night vision (yes, smoke ops does reduce night vision range), it does work, but not exactly like one would expect. For one, it protects you from reaction fire, but the inability to visual-ident enemies makes that hard to predict. On the other hand, once you've been spotted, the AI units don't need to see you to know where you are (unless you run and hide for a few turns) - they only need to see you to attack you - so they will simply close-in until you're within their vision range. Lastly, Bonaventura is ill-suited for night ops tactics. Even the slightest light will make you visible from 20 tiles away, and that includes the glow of Bonaventura's engines. Plus a massed assault is also bad for stealth. Night ops work best with small ships and small teams.

Offline Arthanor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2560
  • XCom Armoury Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended - 0.92 - 25 Jun
« Reply #299 on: July 01, 2015, 07:29:49 pm »
Unless things changed significantly in the Extended version, I'd say the vest is pretty close to fine. A little boost in resistance won't hurt but I don't really take it to resist lasers. Your odds of surviving meaningful laser hits with what little armor it provides aren't really worth it any ways. The best way to survive lasers is to not get shot at :P Which might be possible with the mobility a tac vest allows (light, low TU/Stam cost).

I liked the tac vest as an early breacher armor. It allows the gals to face tank a few shotgun/rifle/pistol shots when in close quarters against traders. Well worth it if it keeps them alive (or reduces their recovery times) and the only source of 35 front until metal armor. Keeping soldiers alive is always my #1 priority and front armor matters a lot for that in small spaces. Surviving soldiers means they improve and become monsters.

Even the heavy price tag didn't prevent me from buying a few at the beginning of the game (2, I think? For my best breachers), a few more later on, then when I wanted some tac armor/tac suit/heavy suit, I bought a bunch more since money is easier to get than personal armor parts.

Overall, I've used smokey, metal and tac vest/armor/suit/heavy armors and now the advanced tac ones (still haven't gotten enough powered armor parts to do anything) and enjoyed all of them. Leather is ok, as a quick spammable light armor that's better than pirate and cheaper than smokey (and I don't tend to linger in smoke as I consider smoke dancing lame). The fact that it can be upgraded to metal when resources allow also makes it not a waste to mass produce.

Warrior/Basic armor is the one that really doesn't seem to have a use. You can get it really early, sure, but leather isn't much harder to get (and can be upgraded to metal later, which is better). Better protection, but so heavy and slow for 5 more armor points.

I think you said it was for shooty gals, which makes sense since TU and Stam don't really matter for shooting. Maybe reduce the weight of it though? I get that it's supposed to be heavy, but if we consider the "handy storage = extra carrying capacity" that runt armor has, all those pockets and the bandolier could justify being able to carry the same amount despite the armor being heavy (ie no/small weight penalty instead of a large one). That would allow shooty gals to wear it and take a medium gun which actually can hurt dangerous things. They'd become slow and dangerous mid-field gals, while the armor would still be bad for melee because of the TU and Stam (representing the stiffness and heavy weight of it).