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Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N1 29-Apr-2022 Every Day Is Caturday  (Read 2549333 times)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2430 on: April 28, 2016, 03:09:26 pm »
And distinct lack of guns most of the time.

I think this part is actually bad news, since katanas are deadly. :)

Offline legionof1

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2431 on: April 28, 2016, 03:48:18 pm »
yeah swords hurt for sure but semi invisible ranged attackers are just irritating. At least the catgirls with melee you have a few tile window for reaction fire. And only the most anemic pistols are less then a 75% chance to kill on a hit. Also for whatever reason they always start inside the smuggler ships so it not like you dont know which way they have to come from to stab you.

Offline Hazard

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2432 on: April 28, 2016, 04:14:44 pm »
Don't be a pussy, the cats have only 30 HP and no armor whatsoever :P

:D It's not that I had much difficulties with them on the few smuggler ships I've caught so far, it's more that them being immune to direct-hit weapons except from a few angles feels like it's there mostly to annoy the player. You can say that this makes them more difficult to fight, and while it's technically true, they still die easily to AoE weapons which should always be carried in abundance anyway. So in practice, it doesn't make much of a difference whether the cats are "invisible" or not, at least in my experience.

My balance concerns are mostly about the Star Gods. While I haven't fought them, I assume they don't go down nearly as fast to explosives, yet I don't know how much the overall threat they pose is based on the lofTemps hack. So I'm afraid that either I go mad screaming bloody murder at my monitor trying to fight them as intended, or I change their lofTemps to 1 and steamroll over them, unless I'll mess with their stats even more...

Edit: Which brings to my mind the question of just how much the different "unit" lofTemps 1 to 5 actually change the probability of being hit. As in does it really matter whether a unit has a lofTemps: 1 instead of 4, for example. I see it's used to represent larger or bulkier units and armors, but how much that actually matters is a question mark to me.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 04:19:15 pm by Hazard »

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2433 on: April 28, 2016, 04:30:55 pm »
... it's more that them being immune to direct-hit weapons except from a few angles ...

Not to mention practically immune to melee as far as I can tell. 
They do a good job of teaching the importance of maintaining AOE capability on every squad, though.  My favorite tactic when farming them trying to pop PIRATE STRAITS, was 2-3 puffs of tear gas and maybe a stun grenade/smoke grenade. :)

Good question about 1-5 Loft Temps.  I think the voxel view/viewer might tell us.  Other than that, maybe only the devs can explain it.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2434 on: April 28, 2016, 04:35:35 pm »
All units in any X-Com game, except for the invisible and semi-invisible units, are vertical cylinders. The diameter of a cylinder is determined by the LOFTemps used, while its height is determined in the ruleset. It's just as simple.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2435 on: April 28, 2016, 04:37:21 pm »
Edit: Which brings to my mind the question of just how much the different "unit" lofTemps 1 to 5 actually change the probability of being hit.

None to negligible. Below 5 tiles, it can be raised to 'very little'.
Also their invisibility hack is not to make them immortal, don't be ridiculous :) It's to give them a bit more chance to cut you down with a katana if you're careless. Star Gods can be exploded as well, they're medium-toughness enemies. Again their invisibility is for attack, not for defence.
Also melee works just fine on both these units, unless some glitch happens that is :)

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2436 on: April 28, 2016, 04:46:21 pm »
All units in any X-Com game, except for the invisible and semi-invisible units, are vertical cylinders. The diameter of a cylinder is determined by the LOFTemps used, while its height is determined in the ruleset. It's just as simple.

Thanks for that explanation!

Another thing to keep in mind, is that these only really matter when the game is calculating a "miss" if I understand how it works correctly.
The first thing the game does (after ensuring a clear trajectory) is use aim etc, then random to determine if a shot hits (Center Mass on the target).  Any shot that Hits, will Hit, no matter what. 
In the case of a miss, it then calculates the trajectory of the miss.  This can be pretty broad actually, though I don't know the exact mechanics.  Because the miss didn't hit the target, if a unit with Loft Temps 1, was shot at, if the miss erred even on voxel to the left or right, it would miss.  If it was loftemps  5, you have a much broader area for a "miss" to still connect with another voxel in the overall target. 

How much difference this actually makes, I don't really know.  :)

Offline Hazard

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2437 on: April 28, 2016, 04:55:25 pm »
All units in any X-Com game, except for the invisible and semi-invisible units, are vertical cylinders. The diameter of a cylinder is determined by the LOFTemps used, while its height is determined in the ruleset. It's just as simple.

What wasn't/isn't clear to a layman like me is just how often it actually happens that a shot deviates so little that the lofTemps and height settings make a difference. Most misses are way off, after all, and the cases where it kinda looks like the shot should've hit but didn't, i.e. when the size of the cylinder might matter, are quite rare.

None to negligible. Below 5 tiles, it can be raised to 'very little'.
Also their invisibility hack is not to make them immortal, don't be ridiculous :) It's to give them a bit more chance to cut you down with a katana if you're careless. Star Gods can be exploded as well, they're medium-toughness enemies. Again their invisibility is for attack, not for defence.
Also melee works just fine on both these units, unless some glitch happens that is :)

But I guess this answers that.

To be honest, my biggest gripe with this lofTemps thing is that it simply feels stupid and/or unfair, or something like that at least, not that it poses a problem that is impossible to work around. Again, these are things that are easy to change if one so wishes, so I suppose what I'm mostly doing here is merely bitching and voicing my annoyance, not a demand for official fix/change/whatever. :) I can appreciate the intent behind these stealthy/difficult to spot/hit units, but the way it has to be done leaves a lot to be desired.

Offline legionof1

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2438 on: April 28, 2016, 06:00:26 pm »
Snip
Also melee works just fine on both these units, unless some glitch happens that is :)
I would beg to differ. I have yet to successfully strike a cat girl with a melee swing even doing the rear gangbang conga. My most concerted melee effort was probably in the area of 25 swings with zero connections. Stargods i have been able to wonk if i have the rear, or sometimes one tile clockwise depending on exact faceing of the stargod. There is some issue of consistency with both types. They do not behave in a fixed manner in regards to facing. Each facing/relative elevation combination behaves differently. A catgirl for instance on a ramp or stair with the attacker below is untargetable by melee(no one there error) as apposed to a level ground engagement she has 4 tile she can be swung at from.   

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2439 on: April 28, 2016, 07:18:24 pm »
Catgirls also dodge very well, which makes melee not a great idea against them. In previous versions, I have been able to melee stun them, using a cattleprod with a high melee skill gal, if I remember well. But they are kinda tricky. The best is definitely using bombs or grenades on them.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2440 on: April 28, 2016, 07:31:23 pm »
Well, many versions ago it was definitely possible to hit the catgirl with melee (with no more trouble than anyone else, even considering the dodge). Maybe in the meantime someone added some 'melee fix', since at the time I was heavily discouraged by the devs against using non-conservative loftemps settings.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2441 on: April 28, 2016, 09:20:38 pm »
Man, Robin's tiles are sweet. See how cute it is:



(also this will be your new starting ship, kya!)

Offline greattuna

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2442 on: April 28, 2016, 09:26:20 pm »
It has doors at least.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2443 on: April 28, 2016, 09:29:31 pm »
There will be 5 Bonaventura variants (including the original) to choose from (hence the introduction of different starting ship :3 ). I assure you, at least one will have full-door suite :)

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2444 on: April 28, 2016, 09:59:10 pm »
Very cute! Now to figure out how to experience the new features without having to do a complete restart.. hum...