Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N8 28-Apr-2024 Labyrinthus Noctis  (Read 3776218 times)

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2370 on: April 23, 2016, 12:04:50 am »
Thanks for the update!
There's an approximation of saving all rounds available in the bullet saving patch on the dev subforum. Might encourage greater weapon diversity as players don't have to be as careful with what they use to save clips.

Woo! Someone knows about my patch! It can be neat to address this issue, yes. Response to Dioxine's comment below for anyone who is interested.

Spoiler:
It does lead to "bullets appearing out of nowhere", but the original, and even openxcom's much improved implementation of combining all bullets and then refunding clips, leads to "bullets disappearing everywhere". I love to use special weapons that have low/rare ammo, which are especially common in XPIratez, but I hate that once I fire once, I might as well empty a whole clip's since worth since I know I am losing it. It makes me either not fire, or fire much more than I would otherwise. I also noticed that I previously tried to keep track of how many bullets I had spent over all the gals with the same weapons for some things, like gauss ammo before I could make it, which is really the opposite of fun. Take gauss pistols, 7 shots, well, either you spend 0 or 7, but in between is a waste. That's an unfortunate, unnecessary choice.

The patch leads to the statistically accurate amount of magically (dis)appearing bullets, in that you don't always lose the remainder of your clip, nor do you always gain one and with a large enough sample, it converges to losing/gaining none. It has taken away the "bullet accountant" syndrome I had, and now I use weapons more appropriately, I use more weapons and I enjoy the game more. win/win/win! But I understand that using statistics on random variables (since the #of bullets left / clip size determines odds, not outcome anymore) is not quite as real as properly tracking bullets and might throw off some people. It is statistically accurate though (and in fact Yankes has an implementation of this, used for example when your cursor flip flops between two numbers when firing on enemies).

Anyhow, it is out there, and if you already compile your game it is easy to make the changes.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2371 on: April 23, 2016, 12:36:17 am »
Well then, we can ask Meridian to pull this into his build. As an option still.

Offline sabrecat

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2372 on: April 23, 2016, 02:04:46 am »
I would absolutely love to see the bullet conservation patch implemented in XPiratez!

Offline legionof1

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2373 on: April 23, 2016, 02:26:46 am »
I really like the rod implementation. Successful capture assured if your willing to surround some dude and let him wang on you for a turn. Excellent tool.

Offline Foxhound634

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2374 on: April 23, 2016, 03:42:12 am »
On the topic of mags for guns, i have always found it to be a bit 'boring' that many weapons don't fire more bullets on full auto. Like if you have a really weak submachine gun that has a large mag, you would expect its strength to lie in its ability to spray the enemy full of lead really fast. Instead, these weapons usually have around 5 or 6 shots, which of course is more than 3 shots from a heavy assault rifle. Those 3 shots from the higher caliber weapon however is ultimately worth a lot more, because armor plays such a significant role. Even the gatling with a 200 round (or was it 300?) box mag will only fire 20 rounds in a burst.

And therein lies another point of discussion, the fact that there doesn't really exist a 'full auto' fire mode where the soldier would fire 10 or 15 rounds in one go...and that's kind of strange, considering that they are carrying fully automatic weapons. Another thing is that 'aimed shot' and 'burst fire' aren't mutually exclusive 'fire modes' in real life, just like 'snap shot' and 'burst fire' aren't either. Aimed/snap is about taking aim, but there is no reason why you wouldn't be able to do both single shot and burst shots while taking a careful aim.

I guess that last part is a discussion on changing the combat system, which is probably very difficult if not impossible to do. My first point however, i'll try to form it into a question. Can/will you add a 'full auto' fire mode that fires substantially more rounds than burst?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 03:44:55 am by Foxhound634 »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2375 on: April 23, 2016, 03:54:40 am »
3 reasons for not increasing autofire rates on all weapons...
1. Gets boring to see all this animation through...
2. Why use snap shots at all, then?
3. Run & boom: a tactic to run to adjacent tile and pump the enemy full of lead. As of now, melee weapons seem to do it better than guns, but adding more lead to autoshots would likely disrupt that balance.

Offline legionof1

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2376 on: April 23, 2016, 04:35:32 am »
the closest approximation of "full auto" that i would care to see in the mod would be a weapon that has low TU for auto fire and only has autofire. Structured like this something like the HMG would feel like it real world counterpart. In reality even the most stable weapons platforms do not sustain full fire rate for more then few seconds at a time. Ammo consumption and accuracy suffer to much for anything man portable to make such usage worthwhile. Mounted on a AFV both restrictions are eased quite abit but ammo consumption is still the overriding factor. Anything a lot of ammo from a small caliber can do one round from a bigger caliber can do better 90% of the time. With laser and plasma weapons recoil and ammo problems go away but heat dispersion prevents sustained use in any setup besides a low power sustained beam. Unless your tech ignores thermodynamics. UFO verse tech only futzes with gravity and even then in a manner consistent with modern science. We merely lack the requisite power generation. The 2 real sci-fi things the UFO verse has is its power supply and psionics. 


Offline new_civilian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2377 on: April 23, 2016, 10:13:34 am »
I really like the rod implementation. Successful capture assured if your willing to surround some dude and let him wang on you for a turn. Excellent tool.

Oooooh, I have to test this right away in the battle generator!  :)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2378 on: April 23, 2016, 12:09:36 pm »
Legionof1, a very sensible post. Although I'd like to add that both the aliens and X-Com - and consequentially, Star Gods and their Earth colony citizens - travel in space, so they must have some sort of heat sink to prevent overheating of spacecraft.
What would be great is a possibility to set numerous auto fire mods to a weapon, something like a "burst fire" for 3 bullets and "auto fire" for 20 bullets; that's how it was in Fallout Tactics, for example. I'd especially like to use such a setup on a minigun HWP, for reasons you've mentioned too regarding accuracy and recoil. But that's something way beyond this mod.

Offline Rince Wind

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2379 on: April 23, 2016, 02:13:54 pm »
I like the way they did it in JA2 1.13, where you can spend more action points for longer bursts.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2380 on: April 23, 2016, 04:35:45 pm »
I like the way they did it in JA2 1.13, where you can spend more action points for longer bursts.

Yes, it was a very good system, but very different from X-Com. I doubt we could just cherrypick its elements.

Offline Rince Wind

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2381 on: April 23, 2016, 05:29:36 pm »
Sure, despite having no clue about programming, it seems rather difficult because of the difference. At least JA2 already had the possibility to spend more points to aim.


Something else: I'm at the end of November of the first year, and I have yet to see the academy. :D
I'll find them eventually. (here's the link, if anyone is interested in a German let's play, new gals are always welcome.)

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2382 on: April 23, 2016, 06:21:11 pm »
I wouldn't say no if you took a stab at German translation :)

Offline legionof1

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2383 on: April 23, 2016, 08:04:17 pm »
@Solarius Scorch, true heat dissipation is an issue but not a large one since a true grav drive doesn't generate heat to provide motive force. Warp effects are  reactionless with regards to the vessel. The two big heat sources in a craft are the power source and the drive. UFO verse has a power source capable of interstellar travel that is relatively safe and low temp, and a non newtonian drive. Seems like low heat system to me.

Offline Hazard

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.98D1 - 22 Apr - Fixed Recovery/Capture
« Reply #2384 on: April 23, 2016, 08:12:59 pm »
Hum. I know every magazine being a clip is a proud XCOM tradition, and that UI space is limited, at least occasionally... Still, a critical mass of the word "clip" must have been achieved in my head, because it's annoying the hell out of me. It didn't yesterday, but now it does.

So yeah. That's all for now. :D