Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N7 16-Dec-2023 Flying Tiger, Hidden Tentacle

[AncientSion]

Can you uprade from 0.98B with straight copy/override ?

[legionof1]

Should be no problem. Backup saves and config file just in case anyway.

[Cristao]

I miss 'infinite ammo' bows!! 

[Dioxine]

I do know it was intended to change the early game and this might just be a side-effect of other changes (splitting races between normal and non-com), but I thought it was worthy of mention because it feels significantly different.

Lol. Yeah, it is an effect of upgrade... but this upgrade happened over a year ago, before even 0.91 I think There is a selection of 4 races (used to be 3) you can hit in the first guaranteed enemy mission that's guaranteed to spawn nearby. STR_SECTOID is one of them.

May I also have a proposal: Why not use the FASTRAMP fix for the Bonaventura? It is just a tiny mcd-patch that corrects/fixes the ramp-TU-usage.

You mean it breaks the ramp TU usage costs? The ramp is supposed to slow you down. I say no to such cheats. You want to get out fast? That's why I made that hole in Bonavetura's floor. That patch was made for Skyranger, and it makes sense for Skyranger, since that craft leaves you with no choice but to walk the ramp into the death zone (with you peripheral vision being conveniently obscured). Bonaventura has choices and fastramping would actually limit them.

[Arthanor]

Lol. Yeah, it is an effect of upgrade... but this upgrade happened over a year ago, before even 0.91 I think There is a selection of 4 races (used to be 3) you can hit in the first guaranteed enemy mission that's guaranteed to spawn nearby. STR_SECTOID is one of them.

hum.. I guess I don't restart/play enough to have noticed. I got traders on my first run (of normal Piratez, before the X), then academy-noncom every time afterwards. I guess as someone put it, I was "RNG'd", but it made for a very atypical start to the run.

I always pictured the guaranteed first mission as an introduction to the mod, which to me STR_SECTOID don't do well by not showcasing the variety and choices. It does introduce the "this mod can screw with you" feature though

[new_civilian]

You mean it breaks the ramp TU usage costs? The ramp is supposed to slow you down. I say no to such cheats. You want to get out fast? That's why I made that hole in Bonavetura's floor. That patch was made for Skyranger, and it makes sense for Skyranger, since that craft leaves you with no choice but to walk the ramp into the death zone (with you peripheral vision being conveniently obscured). Bonaventura has choices and fastramping would actually limit them.

It is NOT a cheat it is a fix so that the AI pathfinding actually USES the ramp instead of doing snake-like-manoevers when it simply should walk down the ramp in a straight line. It does so, because the ramp has a somewhat broken TU usage, it takes longer to walk down one tile of the ramp than it does to jump off at the top and then do a snake-walk manoever and then back to the straight line.. It just is awkward to look at and feels broken. The original DOS Xcom did not have that problem iirc, because the pathfinding AI was basically nonexistant, unlike in OpenXcom where the pathfinding is better than most users' ideas... 

[Dioxine]

Sorry but I don't get it. Naturally you make snake-like maneuver, because going 3 tiles straight is 8+8+4 = 20 TU, while hopping off then hopping in is usually 6+4+8 = 18 TU... (plus free scouting!). To really 'fix' that you would need to completely rewrite the basic mechanics of the game (in this case, rule of: "the cost of movement is the cost of entering a new tile").
The slowing-down effect of the ramp is important tactically. The 'fix' destroys that feature. Also what makes you think the AI uses different pathfinding than auto-pathfinding given to the player? Does it even remotely matter?

[new_civilian]

Sorry but I don't get it. Naturally you make snake-like maneuver, because going 3 tiles straight is 8+8+4 = 20 TU, while hopping off then hopping in is usually 6+4+8 = 18 TU... (plus free scouting!). To really 'fix' that you would need to completely rewrite the basic mechanics of the game (in this case, rule of: "the cost of movement is the cost of entering a new tile").
The slowing-down effect of the ramp is important tactically. The 'fix' destroys that feature. Also what makes you think the AI uses different pathfinding than auto-pathfinding given to the player? Does it even remotely matter?

So, it is realistic that a longer way, a detour,  a jump and another detour BACK to the straight line take LESS time than a simple run DOWN a ramp?
And why should a ramp DOWN slow you down? I simply don't understand the logic behind all this.
It looks strange that every time you want the unit to run down the ramp it does the snake-dance before it goes back to the line it was supposed to use.
Well, I agree that the free scouting is convinient, true, but it does so at the cost of precious TU, which will lead to more reaction-fire AND one could easily scout/look manually at a lower TU cost.

Anyway, I see you want the ramp as it is for other reasons than TU-logic, I can accept that. (Still will use the fast-ramp for myself) 

And what I meant about the pathfinding^  is that it sometimes happens that the autopathfinding finds a faster way than the user would BY HIM/HER-SELF, nothing more nothing less. And yes, that does matter, as it can save your unit's ass. 

[Dioxine]

And why should a ramp DOWN slow you down? I simply don't understand the logic behind all this.

And why a ramp UP wouldn't slow you down? What kind of logic is that? The problem is, we can't have it both ways because core game mechanics, as I mentioned. So my choice is to keep terrain penalties to movement. Especially since going down the stairs isn't as fast as walking on a level surface, unless you want to risk falling on your face. If I didn't want the ramp penalty, I wouldn't use a hack either, there simply wouldn't be any ramps on my ships. On some of them, there indeed isn't, as you might've noticed. With this patch, they're losing some of their disembarkment advantage.

EDIT: but I think I will add a 'motorized' ramp to some ship... note that down...

[greattuna]

Did I screwed up an update? Because the rewards from Pyramid of Pain seem a bit underwhelming now, especially now that the top-tier voodoo-related outfits require gems (different ones).

Also, how do I get them pretty things? I think the mansions hold some, but is there any other sources of these precious gems?

[legionof1]

Mansions defiantly hold some. Potentially quite a large number depending on map spawn. Any other ways i dont know off.

[Dioxine]

There will be more ways to get them. This is a new mechanic. For now, only the Mansion.

[superschokokeks]

Where to find a "shrine maiden"?

I thought I captured all church members..

[legionof1]

Hunt smaller church ships the maiden is approximately equivalent to a marsec operative as far as spawning. It can be easy to miss these ones because the church has more types of "mid-tier" units and fewer ships that spawn them. Shrine ships while medium ships in class, spawn like a terror ship with lots of grunts and some elites missing the middle ground. 

[superschokokeks]

Well, most of the ships mission are pacification with medium ships or larger (or sway govt from traders, but with no success. I didn't shoot down anything. Now those missions don't end on europe).

patience is here the worst enemy.
Waiting for smaller ships. Waiting for the right faction. Get more money than you can throw away. Earth should be drunken by now.
And keep somehow the rating up
Have someone similiar problems at the late game?