Author Topic: Any word on openTFTD's progress?  (Read 21054 times)

Offline Warboy1982

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Re: Any word on openTFTD's progress?
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2015, 03:29:47 pm »
we changed smoke grenades.

Offline Savior20061

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Re: Any word on openTFTD's progress?
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2015, 07:30:00 pm »
OpenTFTD preserves the vanilla values for all weapons and enemies unless they were affected by some sort of glitch. Any other changes are handled by the modding community.

That's cool, I can understand that.

That's the cool thing about PC is that if there's anything people don't like, somebody else is gonna mod it out. :)

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Any word on openTFTD's progress?
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2015, 08:13:58 pm »
we changed smoke grenades.

New weapon type for ink grenade? Or do you mean you decided to change ink grenades to smoke grenades? That would be.. peculiar.

I can't find a commit that mentions ink grenades :(

Offline AndO3131

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Re: Any word on openTFTD's progress?
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2015, 08:37:43 pm »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Any word on openTFTD's progress?
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2015, 08:44:13 pm »
Oh, so they got boosted power to not be useless? I kind of liked the idea of slowly diffusing die underwater.

If it's just a power change, shouldn't the vanilla value be used, and the increase of power be left to a mod (say like the heavy laser fix for EU), not the other way around?

Offline AndO3131

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Re: Any word on openTFTD's progress?
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2015, 08:49:07 pm »
Default value made that grenade useless, so it's safe to assume this was a bug. Openxcom team fixes bugs.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Any word on openTFTD's progress?
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2015, 08:58:51 pm »
 ??? As much as I agree with fixing bugs, that's a dye grenade. Dye diffusion in water is much slower than smoke in air... and dye in air should be completely useless unless it can burn in the initial explosion and turn into smoke.

Anyhow, I guess some bugs are subject to personal interpretation. Luckily, I can just mod it straight back.

Edit: No more "die grenades" I meant "dye grenades" of course.. Ah.. seconnd languages...
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 12:10:25 am by Arthanor »

Offline tollworkout

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Re: Any word on openTFTD's progress?
« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2015, 09:29:17 pm »
i'm pretty sure original game had less efficient smoke ahem DYE grenades intentionally . was not a bug.

Offline tollworkout

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Re: Any word on openTFTD's progress?
« Reply #53 on: August 09, 2015, 09:57:44 pm »
TFTD original smoke (dye) grenade does 10 HE (actually smoke) damage  while UFO smoke grenade does 60 smoke damage.

Is natural to see this as a bug. Ufopedia wiki even suggests that the original devs "may have mistyped the dye grenade's strength as 10 instead of 100."  I, however, think this nerf is actually intentional.
 
First the manual page specifically says damage is 10 so two sources confirm the same damage. Sometimes ufopaedia, manual and actual game may differ suggesting changed or missing features.

Second TFTD incendiary (phosphor) is also nerfed. Since both incendiary and smoke are support type damage and since it appears both have been intentionally nerfed is safe to assume there is a different reason behind it.

My guess is that TFTD was more about melee vs ranged while UFO was more about just ranged.  When I made my melee weapons mod many have said is not as useful in UFO because there are no lobstermen or enemies strong against ranged but weak against melee in UFO.  The nerf was to kinda force players to focus more on if you're fighting in water or land and if you should use melee or ranged. Think about how useful would dye grenade be in a melee fight with lobstermen. If just gonna annoy people more than anything.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 09:59:32 pm by tollworkout »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Any word on openTFTD's progress?
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2015, 12:14:08 am »
Yeah, I can't see them actually intending to have a 100 power dye grenade (good catch on the spelling btw!), that's way too much smoke and such a difference between intention and reality is such a big one to overlook that it seems unlikely.

I think a low power makes sense given how in general, TftD tended to be EU+Screw you modifications, plus, like some of the other "screw you" things, it makes a bit of sense for an underwater environment. Oh well...

Offline Warboy1982

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Re: Any word on openTFTD's progress?
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2015, 05:49:08 am »
to achieve what you're describing you'd need a high-powered smoke grenade with a very small blast radius. with a power of 10, the smoke blocks little to no vision on a single tile, and dissipates completely in a couple of turns, making it completely useless in any practical sense.

if you reeeeeally want your smoke grenades to do nothing, by all means set them back to 10. but for reasons of playability i'm quite happy to leave it at 60, as per zombie's fix on strategycore.

"it was in the manual" is hardly a viable argument, btw. have you SEEN the manual for xcom1? why would you think the people that wrote the manual had anything to do with development of the game? they were more likely given a copy of the final product and told to "write something".

as far as we can tell there is no good or practical reason why the smoke grenade should remain at 10, if it was intentional then the intent is either completely unclear or simply not achievable with the game's engine. the result, whether by intent or not, is that there is a weapon in your arsenal that serves no purpose whatsoever other than to take up space. - i personally find this unacceptable, and you should too.

conversely, we DID leave the biodrone's melee attack at a hilariously inefficient level, because in testing, it became obvious what the intent was, and it works REALLY well within the game engine.

Offline tollworkout

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Re: Any word on openTFTD's progress?
« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2015, 07:04:25 am »
hahaha i noticed the biodrone's melee attack has like 1% accuracy in my current game...they just keep on trying and trying 

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Any word on openTFTD's progress?
« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2015, 07:19:05 am »
to achieve what you're describing you'd need a high-powered smoke grenade with a very small blast radius. [...]

conversely, we DID leave the biodrone's melee attack at a hilariously inefficient level, because in testing, it became obvious what the intent was, and it works REALLY well within the game engine.

Very good idea! I'll do exactly that for the dye grenade. Could you elaborate a bit on the biodrone? It sounds interestingly unexpected that such a low hit rate turns out to work well.

Offline doctor medic

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Re: Any word on openTFTD's progress?
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2015, 10:09:11 am »
have you SEEN the manual for xcom1? why would you think the people that wrote the manual had anything to do with development of the game? they were more likely given a copy of the final product and told to "write something".
How bad was the original manual?

Offline Warboy1982

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Re: Any word on openTFTD's progress?
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2015, 01:24:55 pm »
how bad? well...
on re-reading my post i realize i made a fundamental mistake: it wasn't a copy of the final product, it was an early beta build.

as for the biodrone, if i tell you it will spoil the surprise.