OpenXcom and Tactical RPG's

[DoxaLogos (JG)]

One of my favorite turn-based tactical games back in my youth was SSI Gold Box Series.  Something that started my nostalgia kick recently and eventually got me to buy X-COM was playing the Buck Rogers 25th Century “Countdown to Doomsday” CRPG.  I really liked the skill system and that there was space combat in Buck Rogers, and the sci-fi tactical combat was definitely different from the D&D versions (lot more ranged weapons similar to X-COM).  However, it fell kind of flat in some ways.  I couldn’t figure out why, until I started playing X-COM.  The tactical combat is SO MUCH RICHER!  One example is that using cover really means something in X-COM, and the attempt of using cover in Buck Rogers was very very poor and way too abstract.  I won’t go into a detailed analysis between the two, but suffice it to say that Buck Rogers tactical combat is to X-COM is what tic-tac-toe is to Chess.

Anyway, it got me to thinking (I know, I can’t help it) that OpenXCom’s battlescape engine could be married up to a RPG system.  I think it would be cool to create a “tactical” sci-fi RPG with OpenXcom. I can’t help but wonder what Buck Rogers would be like with a better combat system.  Someone might claim that X-COM has RPG elements(you’re playing the role of the organization’s commander), but I should probably clarify my definition.  My definition of CRPG is a game where you take a group of characters of varying abilities and use them throughout a “campaign” or “adventure” to win the game.

What is everyone’s thoughts of seeing a more RPG’ish game with OpenXcom as a starting point?  How would you envision it? 

[Hobbes]

You have to keep in mind that the objective of the developers is not to create a game engine that can be used for other games like Unreal 3, but merely to replicate the original games. Which places a lot of limits and requirements if you're trying to replicate other games with t - you need to have a Geoscape, bases, etc.

[DoxaLogos (JG)]

Understood.  That's why I posted in General Discussion, not as a "suggestion" or "feature" request.  It's more of thought experiment, and it would require a bit of code changes.   I analyzing the actual combat part of the game that seems pretty well implemented.

[Hobbes]

I just wanted to make that issue clear since quite a few people have thought that their ideas for games could be implemented with OpenXcom, without realizing that it isn't the objective of the project.

As for an RPG, I'd say one of the main issues would be the story you want to tell, if you emotionally relate to the characters and so on. You could make a game based on the original XCom game where you're in charge of a single squad and its members through a series of missions, where the player decisions are more related to which characters to recruit, their relationships to one another and how to develop their abilities.

[Yankes]

Looking at your definition I could say that OpenXcom is already cRPG :>

a) You have items that can alter stats (armors can boost it)
b) Your solders becoming better
c) Your solders have variability of skills
d) You have long campaign (but most of your solders usually die during it )

You could look on Piratez mod that are focus on this.

[DoxaLogos (JG)]

Okay, maybe my definition is still too open-ended:)  Your point is well taken.  Xcom feels more "simulator" to me personally than RPG in some ways with a strong focus on tactical battles, and less "high adventure" of RPG style games that also have battles.

[kikimoristan]

it would be nice to have a  bit more map events/scripting and maybe a few other little things like weapon durability for ex & a few more  but skills/ranks are pretty rpg

[Dioxine]

As for an RPG, I'd say one of the main issues would be the story you want to tell, if you emotionally relate to the characters and so on. You could make a game based on the original XCom game where you're in charge of a single squad and its members through a series of missions, where the player decisions are more related to which characters to recruit, their relationships to one another and how to develop their abilities.

This is a Bioware RPG you're describing. The genre is far wider than that, man (and I'm sure that what Yankes meant, too). The story can be relayed in various ways, not only by dialogue.
The series of pre-scripted missions isn't any better at telling the story than an open world, if said world has enough story and background going.
The inter-character sheaningans aren't neccessary at all. At all. They might be a part of the story, they might not. In the old RPGs the characters were a band of comrades, your faithful soldiers and companions... and also, they often could die in the random vagaries of battle, without immediately bringing up the Game Over screen - like in XCom.
The high-adventure genre is certainly most well known (to the point I'm fed up with it) - all the more needed are under-represented genres, such as sci-fi adventure, cyberpunk, or even less represented - military, alternate reality, hard sf, science fantasy, detective.
 
Advancement decisions are indeed taken, but on the equipment not skills per se - sure, everyone can become a supersoldier in OXcom, but you still have something to say.

One of the things OXcom is lacking is a finite but complex storyline where a string of missions, and unique characters/items can appear. But this WILL appear since TFTD forces it
Another is more character customization... sadly this is impossible in the boundaries of this project, but absolutely not unheard of as far as similar games go (Jagged Alliance, UFO Afterlight, hell, even UFO:ET, Xenonauts and XCOM:Apocalypse were trying to make the characters more personal.

Also... "Roleplaying" XCom isn't anything new, like these people of old who hacked game files to get a 2-seat capacity for interceptors - for no other purpose than to roleplay pilots

[Warboy1982]

replace geoscape with fmv/dialog cutscenes and pre-mission preparation menus, script all the battle layouts and you've basically got front mission or final fantasy tactics.

from a coding perspective, openxcom is a decent enough tile-based tactical engine to adapt to a TRPG type game. it's simply a matter of removing the stuff you don't need, like base management, research, and just about everything geoscape related, and adding in the stuff you do need, like dialog scenes, character permanence, pre-set battles, and maybe a branching storyline

One of the things OXcom is lacking is a finite but complex storyline where a string of missions, and unique characters/items can appear. But this WILL appear since TFTD forces it

will it? does it? i'm not so sure.

[DoxaLogos (JG)]

 Thanks for the discussion.  All good food for thought

[Hobbes]

will it? does it? i'm not so sure.

I've been brainstorming a lot about how to add unique missions using the current Nightly builds. Several I already discarded since the TFTD mission system doesn't allow the necessary customization but I've come up with a couple interesting ideas that I will try to implement on UFO Redux. True, even with TFTD the system doesn't allow for much new, but if you understand how everything works (research/alienRaces/etc.) you can throw a few new things. And if you're interested I can give a couple of suggestions for the new features (mission briefings, alerts, etc.) to be even more adaptable, based on my investigations.

[Hythlodaeus]

replace geoscape with fmv/dialog cutscenes and pre-mission preparation menus, script all the battle layouts and you've basically got front mission or final fantasy tactics.

from a coding perspective, openxcom is a decent enough tile-based tactical engine to adapt to a TRPG type game. it's simply a matter of removing the stuff you don't need, like base management, research, and just about everything geoscape related, and adding in the stuff you do need, like dialog scenes, character permanence, pre-set battles, and maybe a branching storyline

will it? does it? i'm not so sure.

I'm not sure you could do FFT in the current engine, because FFT actually renders terrain in full 3d meshes instead of sprites.

Now if you say Tactics Ogre, that would be possible, and a hella interesting possibility for doing something different with the engine.

[Warboy1982]

I'm not sure you could do FFT in the current engine, because FFT actually renders terrain in full 3d meshes instead of sprites.

i guess i was thinking of the GBA version

[Hythlodaeus]

i guess i was thinking of the GBA version

Oh, right, I completely forgot FFTA.

[Dioxine]

replace geoscape with fmv/dialog cutscenes and pre-mission preparation menus, script all the battle layouts and you've basically got front mission or final fantasy tactics.

from a coding perspective, openxcom is a decent enough tile-based tactical engine to adapt to a TRPG type game. it's simply a matter of removing the stuff you don't need, like base management, research, and just about everything geoscape related, and adding in the stuff you do need, like dialog scenes, character permanence, pre-set battles, and maybe a branching storyline

will it? does it? i'm not so sure.

Cutscenes? Who the hell needs cutscenes, they're a plague, not a feature. Mission briefing screen (already highly customizable) + Pedia allows to feed the player as much plot and background as needed without forcing him/her to digest cutscenes. How better XCOM2012 would have been with a simple operation of cutscene removal. Apart from the fact the game never existed, that is

Branching storyline? Check. The very research system and mission randomness gives even something better - an infinitely diverging/emerging storyline (tried in Wizardry 7, for example - it was based on pre-scripted events, true, but the world was huge and the going ons were going on regardless if the player was around or not(. All you'd need is to add some feature(s) to exclude some topics/missions once a different choice was made.

TFTD does have unique missions - Artifact Sites. Unique missions open an avenue for unique enemies/encounters. Another option is - already present - algorithm for pre-scripted missions. Again, not much work to make it more robust (and accepting "if...then" arguments like I signaled above).

I don't think the research/manufacture/interception part hurts the RPG part in any way. It simply makes a game differ from the current Western mainstream (but not from some games you could find in 1990s or even currently, in the Eastern productions).

What's true and crucial however is that one would need to add more character customization to make that float.