[Question] Is there a limit for map-sizes?

[new_civilian]

A question to Warboy:
I thought about increasing the size of the terror site terrains which is 50x50 to something else (changed it to 90x90 right now, but haven`t tested yet), so I wanted to know if there is a maximum size that the game can handle. The idea behind this was to spread out civilians and aliens much more, so that MAYBE I have a chance of saving more than one... That and I wanted to give the motion scanner a terrain to work in, because it is rather pointless to have them right now.

tldr: What is the maximum size of maps, especially terror terrains?

[Warboy1982]

i don't think there is one... i think Daiky said at some point it was like 100x100 but i've not seen evidence of a hard coded limit, nor have i put it to the test.

[Hobbes]

A question to Warboy:
I thought about increasing the size of the terror site terrains which is 50x50 to something else (changed it to 90x90 right now, but haven`t tested yet), so I wanted to know if there is a maximum size that the game can handle. The idea behind this was to spread out civilians and aliens much more, so that MAYBE I have a chance of saving more than one... That and I wanted to give the motion scanner a terrain to work in, because it is rather pointless to have them right now.

tldr: What is the maximum size of maps, especially terror terrains?

I've increased map sizes to 80x80 but if you go bigger than 50x50 on Terror Sites then the missions will drag forever until you find and kill the last alien, just like the Ship missions on TFTD. It's a matter of math: 50x50 is a 2500 tiles playing area. 60x60 equals 3600 (40% increase in playing area), 70x70 equals (4900 or nearly the double of 50x50).

[davide]

I will tried terrain of 100x100 when I added support to rectangle/huge maps

For now I agree with Hobbes (max 60) but in the future 

when OpenXcom 3.0 will support vehicle/helicopter to move XCom units quickly on the terrain

I could change idea ...

For the moment I think that the Terrain ruleset should be allow customize its dimension
to allows MapMaker/Designer/Artist to free the imagination

[XOps]

Like davide, I have also tried 100x100 maps and can confirm they work. I haven't tried any larger than that though. I got Cydonia modded so that each stage is 100x100 with double the aliens. I have noticed a few interesting things when maps get that big. The first is that any map at or over 80x80 needs a lot of map blocks made for it. Most terrains have only around 15 different map blocks. When a map gets so big, you really start to notice repeating blocks. Second is that if you double the aliens then it does make combat on large maps flow better for a few turns until they starting panicking. The morale system isn't really designed to handle that many combatants on the field at once. [OPINION] For the most part, Hobbes is right. Large maps tend to drag on forever. I think the Cydonia thing only works because the goal isn't to hunt down all the aliens, but to make it to the exit or kill the brain. Large maps are only tolerable if there is an objective other than hunting down all of the aliens which simply takes too long. I think if there were some way to end missions without killing every alien, then large maps might become more viable gameplay wise.  [/OPINION]

[new_civilian]

Gee, thanks for all the answers! So far I could not test my new setting (90x90) due to a map/ruleset-conflict, but I think you are right, the problems seem to outweight the benefits...

Anyway, thanks. 

[Yankes]

Second is that if you double the aliens then it does make combat on large maps flow better for a few turns until they starting panicking. The morale system isn't really designed to handle that many combatants on the field at once.

I'm now working on some changes in my extended version that could address this. I altered morale modifier for big groups of alien (more than 20) and if I made math right you need always kill more than half of crew to made them panicking.

[new_civilian]

A crude way to make them less panicky is to simply raise their morale stats, it's what I am using in my personal mod combo. Still, I prefer a real fix, so I am looking forward to the new Exe changes.

Oh and I made the tests!

90x90 maps: The tiles repeat themselves MUCH too often, Hobbes is absolutely right about this. The too-may-aliens-directly-around-the-Craft-bug is no longer an issue, though. Missions take looooooong, depending on the terrain.

70x70 maps: Depending on the terrain, the game still drags on forever. Again, Hobbes is right. The spreading out however is better. Still, i prefer to not have those nightmarish eternal TFTD sessions again 

I did not try 60x60, let's be honest, it is not that much a change.

50x50 is a good but not perfect compromise and I think changing this default is not worth trying.

[Aldorn]

I would have a question...ied

I made some tests with map sizes :
- Around 1 year earlier, it was possible to set map size up to 150X150 (tested with night build openxcom_git_master_2014_08_24_0727)
- I installed recent night build (openxcom_git_master_2015_07_06_003 -> congratulation for your pugnacity , converted to new directory architecture (and had to solve only one issue (nice !!) regarding "Holodrone terrorist size") but testing maps using "New Battle" system, I'm encountering an issue with most of my map sizes

Now, it seems to accept map size of 70X70 as a maximum

Does anyone confirm ?

[Hobbes]

I would have a question...ied

I made some tests with map sizes :
- Around 1 year earlier, it was possible to set map size up to 150X150 (tested with night build openxcom_git_master_2014_08_24_0727)
- I installed recent night build (openxcom_git_master_2015_07_06_003 -> congratulation for your pugnacity , converted to new directory architecture (and had to solve only one issue (nice !!) regarding "Holodrone terrorist size") but testing maps using "New Battle" system, I'm encountering an issue with most of my map sizes

Now, it seems to accept map size of 70X70 as a maximum

Does anyone confirm ?

I haven't tried the new nightlies yet, but there can be an issues with the vanilla mapScripts if you increase battlescape size to more than 50x50, where there will not be enough maps available due to the script. And this is what I think it may be happening with you:

Code: [Select]

mapScripts:
  - type: FARM
    commands:
    - type: addUFO
    - type: addCraft
    - type: fillArea
      blocks: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18]
      maxUses: [3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3]
A 70x70 battlescape requires 49 map blocks of 10x10 dimensions (7x7 = 49).

And the MaxUses section of the Farm mapScript limits the use of the map blocks, so that they can appear only 3 times on a battlescape. So there are 18x3 = 54 + 2 (XCom craft landing) + UFO mapblocks available for placing on the battlescape, which gives 56+ (depending on the UFO) possible map blocks, enough to fill a 70x70, even if it is a Small Scout.

But if you increase the size to 80x80, then you need 64 10x10 map blocks, which is almost impossible to be generated with Farm terrain, unless the UFO is a Battleship (54 + 2 + 9 = 65). 

So, you need to change the maxUses of the vanilla scripts, since they were designed for 50x50 format, otherwise the engine won't be able to generate the battlescape

[Aldorn]

What a explanation ! 
Thanks Hobbes 

I was just having a look at another post speaking about mapScripts 

EDIT : this one https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,389.msg37521.html#msg37521

EDIT2 : and I downloaded the last version of your terrain pak, that will help