[WIP][Beta][MegaMod]Equal Terms 2.0 - Beta 1.997

[KingMob4313]

Going to move the extra 'visual' variation armors to a seperate rule file. Urban is going to be the default.

Going to implement the armor recovery.

Glad everyone is enjoying it.

[Infini]

Going to move the extra 'visual' variation armors to a seperate rule file. Urban is going to be the default.

Very nice.  Because if you want to improve the light or tactical armors, you need to remember which one you're using.
I applaude.

[pkrcel]

I usually stick to Jungle but urban rocks as well.

I will be a *very* happy camper when done :-D

BTW:
I feels that Armor recovery should be implemented from tier Personal Armor and onward. Kevlar and Improved Kevlar might not be worth it, since they're already cheap not in money and alloys.

Repairing a personal or heavy should be reasonably quick.

Can't tell higher tiers, so far.

[pkrcel]

Bug Report:

Personal Heavy Armor has a

Code: [Select]

corpseItem: STR_CORPSE_HEAVY_PERSONAL_ARMOR defined in Coherency ruleset.


Unfortunately nowhere else the CorpseItem is to be found, thus upon a soldier death I get a crash to desktop.

Commenting the offending CorpseItem fixes the issue, but of course the correct way is to define the corpseitem elsewhere in the Items section....I guess you're already doing that (or should be in the next future?) for armor repair staying to your words; anyway as of now this is a little annoyance.

Right now save one of my soldier thou  , I feel cheaty.


BTW first Mutons came down the sky on a battleship (which I let land in Spain! Lucky me, my base is in taormina) as long as 4 (FOUR!) other vessels (2 supply ships and 2 medium scouts). Too bad I have only 2 laser snipers and LOTS of alloy ammo which just tickles the mutons. 

I managed to down ALL the other vessels (almost) unscathed thanks to laser craft weaponry, the supply ships were landed (but took off readily before intercept) in scotland....Almost surely there will be an alien base there.

I'll be QUITE busy in the next (game) days.

Given that I get out of the Muton Battleship with a full loot, of course....it won't be easy...this suckers eat alloy ammo for snacks. 

I need my rocket launcher gal to go get those laser pistols I stupedly left in the skyranger.

But if I do, i'll stack up 449 elerium total in stores.... a game changer to me on April 30!

Exciting times ahead...once more game feels damn challenging.

EDIT: Done it! Too bad 5 operatives lost their precious lives for a CRAPLOAD of goodies.    ....also the guy that's been saved by the bug, he ended up fried a couple turns later 

[Infini]

Personal Heavy Armor has a
Code: [Select]

corpseItem: STR_CORPSE_HEAVY_PERSONAL_ARMOR

defined in Coherency ruleset.

How do you fix it ?

[HelmetHair]

One weapon HWP or Two Weapon HWP? 

I'm a little concerned about the balance on the HWP if I go with a 2 weapon HWP.  Right now, it would be a SAW or a GPMG paired with a grenade launcher, or a Rocket Launcher Paired with a SMG.

...

Any thoughts?

Yes,

Well I have a few thoughts,
-on four square HWPs
1. A two weapon HWP should be included without hesitation if it is a four square HWP.

The cost benefit of a four square HWP does not favor the HWP because towards the end of the game in vanilla when you have a large number of competent (see half-retarded) soldiers HWPs are skipped over because they cannot match the firepower or flexibility of even four rookie soldiers. At the most basic we are looking at 160K for four soldiers vs 420k for the most basic HWP. Plus all of the inherent limitations of HWPs like not gaining XP, and not carrying additional equipment, HWPs have so low reactions that they are plasma magnets.  That was always my biggest beef with HWPs in vanilla is they lost their utility because I was basically trading four shooters for one big ass target that is likely going to get heavy plasma pwn'd exiting the Skyranger or Avenger.

2. As the Tech Tree blossoms so should its application with HWPs.
A purpose built war-machine is a powerful asset because it is intended to be so. It is designed to do a few things very well and that is MOVE AND SHOOT. There is no grenade chucking, no healing of wounded, or capturing of aliens. An auto plasma tank is bad assed because it was designed to be bad ass, why neuter it?

3. An HWP is a very expensive piece of cover.
How heavily armored are your HWPs going to be? For the sacrifice I am going to make in firepower it better survive like four guys.

4.A four square HWP CANNOT clear most UFOs because it can't get through most doors.
This limits utility or forces us to use extreme measures which will likely result in less salvage and/or more Xcom casualties, which is in direct opposition to why a machine would be on a mission.

-On one square HWPs
1. Two weapons on a one square HWP could be overpowered
It would then be a direct replacement for soldiers only better because it was a specialized badass you could pull off the shelf. If you choose to do this, the cost must be balanced in favor of a soldier and not the HWP.

2. One square HWPs with a weapon and a smoke popper would be great and fit well with what I THINK(see hope) you want out of the balance.

3. Please let scouts be scouts and tanks be tanks.

I'll post more after I've had dinner. This is a hot topic with me.

[HelmetHair]

Okay, I feel so much better after eating so...

I really want to give you a few ideas for break over on balance. That is to say, how do you determine if something would be overpowered or has potential for abuse if yourself is not quite sure.

1. 4 tanks vs 16 rookies with similar equipment, who wins?

2. Is the HWP based around assault or support role?
-If it is support maybe choose an indirect fire  power weapon and a smoke popper
-If it is supposed to be an assault HWP choose
    -two weapons, one direct fire and one indirect fire of medium capability
    -One direct fire power weapon (sniper tank) and smoke popper

3. Would taking away or adding autoshot make a HWP more or less lethal?

4. Is the armor value of the tank make it tougher than 4 rookies of similar armor standard?

5. Would a player chew the carpet in frustration for losing the HWP in combat because of its replacement cost?

6. Does it make you giggle while you code it? THAT IS RIGHT OUT!!! NO FUN ALLOWED!!!

7. Do you imagine fat neckbeards (me) breathing heavily while naming your HWPs horribly melodramatic names like "Eater of Dreams", "Soul Burner", or "McSmashyBooMBoomer"

But seriously....

KingMob4313,

If you feel that a blasterbomb combo HWP would be overpowered, it is because it would be !

However, I would invite you to reconsider an improved grenade / Plasma combination. Being able to engage a target either directly or indirectly at will via a single HWP is something that was needed in

Vanilla. If you want people to use what you have worked so hard on, then you need to make  it useful. A good way to look at it is if someone would rather play chess with all pawns, or with a mix of pieces

equaling the same point value. How you as a modmaker weigh that is through the cost OUTSIDE of the battlescape against the utility INSIDE the battlescape. I am totally onboard with whatever you

choose, but please make high end HWPs useful.


-HH

[KingMob4313]

Bug Report:

Personal Heavy Armor has a

Code: [Select]

corpseItem: STR_CORPSE_HEAVY_PERSONAL_ARMOR defined in Coherency ruleset.


Unfortunately nowhere else the CorpseItem is to be found, thus upon a soldier death I get a crash to desktop.

Commenting the offending CorpseItem fixes the issue, but of course the correct way is to define the corpseitem elsewhere in the Items section....I guess you're already doing that (or should be in the next future?) for armor repair staying to your words; anyway as of now this is a little annoyance.

Right now save one of my soldier thou  , I feel cheaty.

ACK!

  - type: STR_CORPSE_HEAVY_PERSONAL_ARMOR
    name: STR_CORPSE
    weight: 20
    bigSprite: 905
    floorSprite: 906
    invWidth: 2
    invHeight: 3
    armor: 40
    recover: false

Is the missing item. Adding to it to fix it.

Thanks again!

[KingMob4313]

Bug Report:

BTW first Mutons came down the sky on a battleship (which I let land in Spain! Lucky me, my base is in taormina) as long as 4 (FOUR!) other vessels (2 supply ships and 2 medium scouts). Too bad I have only 2 laser snipers and LOTS of alloy ammo which just tickles the mutons. 

I managed to down ALL the other vessels (almost) unscathed thanks to laser craft weaponry, the supply ships were landed (but took off readily before intercept) in scotland....Almost surely there will be an alien base there.

I'll be QUITE busy in the next (game) days.

Given that I get out of the Muton Battleship with a full loot, of course....it won't be easy...this suckers eat alloy ammo for snacks. 

I need my rocket launcher gal to go get those laser pistols I stupedly left in the skyranger.

But if I do, i'll stack up 449 elerium total in stores.... a game changer to me on April 30!

Exciting times ahead...once more game feels damn challenging.

EDIT: Done it! Too bad 5 operatives lost their precious lives for a CRAPLOAD of goodies.    ....also the guy that's been saved by the bug, he ended up fried a couple turns later 

Yeah, even with the improved ammo, gunpowder weapons are so weak against the mutons.  Gotta bust out those directed Energy weapons, son! Heh.

I want it to feel challenging, all the while giving you different tools to be used to fill in tactical gaps.

[KingMob4313]

1. A two weapon HWP should be included without hesitation if it is a four square HWP.

The cost benefit of a four square HWP does not favor the HWP because towards the end of the game in vanilla when you have a large number of competent (see half-retarded) soldiers HWPs are skipped over because they cannot match the firepower or flexibility of even four rookie soldiers. At the most basic we are looking at 160K for four soldiers vs 420k for the most basic HWP. Plus all of the inherent limitations of HWPs like not gaining XP, and not carrying additional equipment, HWPs have so low reactions that they are plasma magnets.  That was always my biggest beef with HWPs in vanilla is they lost their utility because I was basically trading four shooters for one big ass target that is likely going to get heavy plasma pwn'd exiting the Skyranger or Avenger.

Accepted. I stopped using tanks for very much the same reason. Throw out a smoke grenade, end the turn so aliens don't have ALL THEIR TIMEUNITS and then begin, instead of rolling out the tank first turn and getting it shot to hell.

2. As the Tech Tree blossoms so should its application with HWPs.
A purpose built war-machine is a powerful asset because it is intended to be so. It is designed to do a few things very well and that is MOVE AND SHOOT. There is no grenade chucking, no healing of wounded, or capturing of aliens. An auto plasma tank is bad assed because it was designed to be bad ass, why neuter it?

Acceptable.

3. An HWP is a very expensive piece of cover.
How heavily armored are your HWPs going to be? For the sacrifice I am going to make in firepower it better survive like four guys.

I am increasing the hitpoints and damage resistance of the tanks by a remarkable amount.  A tank should be fearsome, even if it is a little unmanned thing.

4.A four square HWP CANNOT clear most UFOs because it can't get through most doors.
This limits utility or forces us to use extreme measures which will likely result in less salvage and/or more Xcom casualties, which is in direct opposition to why a machine would be on a mission.

Accepted.

I'm going to not do any single square HWP with my current planned release.  The fact that all 1 square HWP can be zombified is annoying.

[KingMob4313]

But seriously....

KingMob4313,

If you feel that a blasterbomb combo HWP would be overpowered, it is because it would be !

However, I would invite you to reconsider an improved grenade / Plasma combination. Being able to engage a target either directly or indirectly at will via a single HWP is something that was needed in

Vanilla. If you want people to use what you have worked so hard on, then you need to make  it useful. A good way to look at it is if someone would rather play chess with all pawns, or with a mix of pieces

equaling the same point value. How you as a modmaker weigh that is through the cost OUTSIDE of the battlescape against the utility INSIDE the battlescape. I am totally onboard with whatever you

choose, but please make high end HWPs useful.


-HH

I personally have a hate on for mind control and blaster bombs.  Once you get them, you can just phone everything in from the comfort of your skyranger/start zone.  I will have a one weapon blaster bomb HWP, but for the plasma, I will have a plasma grenade launcher on it.

You have me completely convinced on the two weapons thing.  Now I just gotta figure out how to do it.

[KingMob4313]

I usually stick to Jungle but urban rocks as well.

I will be a *very* happy camper when done :-D

BTW:
I feels that Armor recovery should be implemented from tier Personal Armor and onward. Kevlar and Improved Kevlar might not be worth it, since they're already cheap not in money and alloys.

Repairing a personal or heavy should be reasonably quick.

Can't tell higher tiers, so far.

Which other mod had armor repair again?

[KingMob4313]

Making good progress and I am hoping to finish up work tomorrow and test for a friday release, I just need to figure out how to do the two-weapon HWP. 

Release should have:
1) bugfixes (heavy armor corpse, laser array, issrl and...)
2) 6 shot grenade launcher with 3-4 types of ammo
3) conventional and improved conventional armor camo types split off to separate rule files. Urban is now the default
4) New 2 weapon HWP for conventional, laser and plasma.  They will be markedly tougher and have two weapons, but will cost about 15% more.
5) new graphics for laser array
6) wasp missile launcher for crafts

[Dioxine]

Blasterbomb tank isn't OP, it is actually pointless. One trooper with a Blaster can carry out its role, leaving three unoccupied spaces. A Blaster platform doesn't need anything a tank can provide - mobility and armor are useless.

Curbing Blaster: make ammo irrepraceable? Add maxRange? Or do away with it completely.

Curbing Psi: I've discovered that you can add maxRange to Psi Amp.

[KingMob4313]

Blasterbomb tank isn't OP, it is actually pointless. One trooper with a Blaster can carry out its role, leaving three unoccupied spaces. A Blaster platform doesn't need anything a tank can provide - mobility and armor are useless.

Curbing Blaster: make ammo irrepraceable? Add maxRange? Or do away with it completely.

Curbing Psi: I've discovered that you can add maxRange to Psi Amp.

More was just saying that blaster bombs are OP in general, but yes, it does come back to the tank vs 4 soldiers.

Most of the time, in my games, I just set the blaster bomb to be non-waypoint and set the accuracy to 200%

I would love to turn the psi amp into an 'omni tool' that disables weapons, setting the ammo in them to zero, opens ufo doors at a distance, and that mind controls robotic enemies, but that would require massive code changes.

The conceit being that the xcom team figured out how to manipulate alien technology, but lacks the brain structures for psionics.