[UFOs]A better way to get UFO information

[Arthanor]

I've been playing with the Alien Armoury Expanded mod, and will likely start using Luke's UFOs soon as well, to spice things up as I test my XCom Armoury.

One thing that I find tricky is that it is almost impossible to learn about the UFOs, unless you capture..  the pilot? and then you learn about a random UFO, not the one he was piloting...

I was thinking of adding a set of items in the game, "UFO reports", that would be placed in the UFO pilot's inventory (for convenience, as I don't know how to just generate one). It would represent the reports generated by the XCom interceptor pilot and the agents on clean up about every incident (It is gathered on the UFO because that's the only way, plus.. let's say just shooting one down from the distance is not gathering much new information).

After gathering a certain number of them (say..? 10?), you can use them to manufacture a "UFO Evaluation", which represents your engineers poring over the data and coming up with their analysis, plus contributing what they know of the engineering of UFOs.

That item could then used for a quick research, which is your scientists compiling and archiving all the information, to go in the UFOPaedia.

This is the only way I know of of accumulating multiple items until enough are gathered to start a research project. I don't want one report to be enough and the only way to "convert" items in the game is through manufacturing. I like that it can be rationalized as involving the engineers too.

Of course, every time a new craft is added, the mod would need to be updated to add the report to the new craft. It should not be too much work though, since there aren't often that many new UFOs.

Any thoughts? Is that worth looking into?

[Dioxine]

Perfectly doable and makes sense, although the final item would have to have really low research cost - else too much hassle for minor value info. 10 reports is a lot unless you want them to be planted really often. Alternatively, the data item can be planted on UFO maps. The second solution is probably better as it doesn't modify alien loadouts - and these tend to be modded often. Negative side - workshop list cluttered with projects that will only be used once. Possible solution: the report can be researched normally, but the research needs to be unlocked first by interrogating an alien Engineer.

[Arthanor]

Indeed, I envision it as a very low cost project for the completionists out there (I know I'm one of them!).

I agree that there are a few issues. That's why I posted it here: I get access to many more brains for good ideas!

- Number of items: That was mostly thinking of the smaller UFOs that you see often. For the larger ones, I guess a smaller number could work (It's so big and takes so long to destroy, it's easy to study!)
- Placing items: I did not think that was possible, or maybe only in the more recent version(s)? I still use version 1.0 since I want the mods I develop to be usable on the release version.
- The manufacture list getting cluttered.. It would be good if the project could be removed after it is done once. Similarly, all those reports would show up on the selling list too, I guess? Is there some sellValue you can give to prevent items from showing up there?

These issues and the XCom Armoury Expanded are enough for me to keep this "on the back burner" for now, but I feel it would be a good thing to add to Aldorn's modding of the UFOPaedia.

[LeBashar]

I don't think this is so logical ?

The information about on UFO should be the result of : information gathered in flight after detection + information gathered in the air combat + information gathered when the UFO is disassembled and transform on "in kit form", no ?

[Arpia]

UFO Navigations. you get them in every craft... unless its a smouldering crater.
research topic UFO Navigations -> research new topic recover UFO data. this opens up an engineering project that takes several UFO navs and turns then into an item (UFO Data) and researching this item unlocks a random ufo entry (representing the engineers combing through several defunct UFO navs to pull data on a UFO) you can now just keep researching this to get a new random ufo entry (via the getonefree tag the alien medics use) till you have them all.

instead of creating your own 'report' and making it generate on alien pilots, this uses existing assets and doesn't require adding a ton of extra new things.
also, if you dont give something a sell/buy value, i believe it doesn't appear in the sell/buy list - since its counted as unsellable or something. you can also give it a store space value of 0 so it doesn't take up space in your item stores, so it shouldn't clutter lists or cause problems.

[Dioxine]

Any item is sellable. Undefined sell price deafults to $0 but the item still appears on the sell/sack list.
There is also no way to remove an item from the workshop jobs list after it has been researched.

Example of placing items (taken from Xcom1Ruleset):

Code: [Select]

  - name: UBASE
    mapDataSets:
      - BLANKS
      - U_BASE
      - U_WALL02
      - U_PODS
      - BRAIN
    largeBlockLimit: 3
    mapBlocks:
      - name: UBASE_03
        width: 20
        length: 20
        items:
          STR_ELERIUM_115:
            - [2, 14, 1]
The numbers are xyz coorditantes of the item.

[Arthanor]

I don't think this is so logical ?

The information about on UFO should be the result of : information gathered in flight after detection + information gathered in the air combat + information gathered when the UFO is disassembled and transform on "in kit form", no ?

The reports coming from alien pilots would be just a technical implementation of the concept. It does not represent the pilot actually carrying the information. It was a way to put something on the craft to be recovered, but not in too large numbers (like if one would put it on soldiers).

Detection and interception can't produce items or research, as far as I know. So using the UFO recovery to get the item would represent the final incident report obtained after all is done. Afterall, you need to detect a UFO and likely intercept it, before you can recover it. Detection and/or interception without recovery can be considered as not contributing enough data since you couldn't get your hands on the actual UFO.

@Arpia: The UFO navigation idea is good! I like using that as the "number of UFOs to encounter" threshold instead of partial reports planted on pilots. Especially as you get a lot more of them than you need any ways. It's also nice to only add one item to the manufacture list.

I don't want to use "get one free", though. I am trying to make the system give you the stats of the UFOs that you have encountered. It is mostly to help with accessing the data from the new mods.

Some crafts have a very distinct impact on the game, especially if you are nerfing early crafts to make interception more challenging. One example is the Alien Armoury Expanded's fighter. The first time this thing showed up, I read "small UFO", sent one interceptor and promptly lost it. Then many interceptors and got them all mangled just to crash it. Being able to obtain data and better plan for the next one would be nice (and add a component of learning about your enemy to the game)

@Dioxine: Of course! Thanks for pointing that out to me. For some reason I overlooked that almost all missions we have start with stuff on the floor. Of the transport, all in a pile, or everywhere in the base.. That would make it easier than modifying loadouts for sure!

So.. the new mod would look like:
UFO X Report:
- buyValue of 0: you can't buy it.
- Make the item require some research that doesn't exist: You can't equip it/bring it in the transport
- sellValue..? 5000? It's a tiny income but allows you to get rid of excess items which will show up in the list any ways. Plus, that can be XCom selling the data to governments who want to better prepare themselves, or to some rich dude with an interest in UFOs.
- space: 0

Manufacture:
UFO Navigation Analysis: Takes.. 5(?) UFO Navigation and makes one Analysis. Pretty quick, requires UFO Navigation. (But.. research doesn't destroy items.. so you would be able to research all UFOs with only one analysis -> Mod "requires" the "spend research item" option)

Research:
Requires 1 UFO Navigation Analysis + 1 UFO X report -> Quick research -> Stats for UFO X.

How does that sound?

[LeBashar]

The player can produce ufo navigation, no ? it is a problem with your idea.

[Arthanor]

UH?! Good catch!

I've always had so many UFO Navigations from crashed UFOs, I never needed to produce any... This idea would try to give them some other value than extra money.

I guess the mod could add a manufacturing requirement that will only be unlocked later in the game, like.. having researched Battleship stats, or UFO Construction?

[Arpia]

easy fix. make it non manfucturable

[pkrcel]

Just like the UFO power source, that would add a lot to the game in this context.








...then an UFO Assault could yeld a WHOLE UFO as loot