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Author Topic: TFTD Damage or XCom damage?  (Read 9648 times)

Offline Recruit69

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TFTD Damage or XCom damage?
« on: July 25, 2014, 09:17:05 pm »
Which is better? Pros and cons?

Offline yrizoud

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Re: TFTD Damage or XCom damage?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2014, 09:34:46 pm »
At the beginning of game, your soldiers have basically no armor. With the vanilla 0-200% damage variation, you can sometimes survive a plasma hit (rifle, heavy), with minor wound even. With the TFTD formula, death is almost guaranteed.

Offline Falko

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Re: TFTD Damage or XCom damage?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2014, 09:59:24 pm »
downside sometimes your soldiers hit an alien 3-4 times and he will not drop dead
i prefer TFTD its more reliable for me and the aliens feel deadlier

Offline Recruit69

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Re: TFTD Damage or XCom damage?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2014, 10:06:24 pm »
TFTD was my first game, and I knew that one shot could kill. AND deadly as you say too.

Let's face it, ANY shot that hits you, gotta HURT ALOT rather than "oh just a scratch". Often can significantly injure. Somehow I feel that TFTD would be more realistic.

There has been many occasions in OpenXcom where I shot 3 times in a row on a Sectoid with a Sniper rifle and the pest survived.

Though TFTD damage makes the mod Armoured Vest a necessity with regards to rookies being killed sooo easily in early game?

Offline Muukalainen

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Re: TFTD Damage or XCom damage?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2014, 10:41:36 pm »
I decided to choose vanilla 0-200% damage. I somehow like the idea that you can have hits that only cause small flesh wounds.

Though it might become quite silly if you hit sectoids 3 times and they only get flesh wounds. But that's what flesh wounds are. Silly :)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: TFTD Damage or XCom damage?
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2014, 01:04:56 pm »
I decided to choose vanilla 0-200% damage. I somehow like the idea that you can have hits that only cause small flesh wounds.

Me too, but I was more inclined to do so for the BOOM, HEADSHOT! effect if you roll very high damage. :P

niculinux

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Re: TFTD Damage or XCom damage?
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2014, 02:58:09 pm »
Me too, but I was more inclined to do so for the BOOM, HEADSHOT! effect if you roll very high damage. :P

: D hey just got an ideadl: may we get an option that guarantees a third solution, so we may have both flesh wounds and critical shots?peraphs even as a mod, but a openxcom native option would be....cracking

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: TFTD Damage or XCom damage?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2014, 03:39:53 pm »
: D hey just got an ideadl: may we get an option that guarantees a third solution, so we may have both flesh wounds and critical shots?peraphs even as a mod, but a openxcom native option would be....cracking

*sigh* With XCom damage, you have both flesh wounds and critical shots... That's the whole point.

Offline Zargul

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Re: TFTD Damage or XCom damage?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2014, 03:24:47 pm »
I really prefere the TFTD-Damage Formula.

It gives the game a more realistic feeling, if a plasma bolt from a rifle hits you, it should do serious damage.
On the other side multiplying the heavy plasma's damage by 2 is also not really something I'd want to have.

But indeed. If you take the TFTD-Damage, you might need a Mod, since the basic armour is often too weak for most alien weapons.

niculinux

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Re: TFTD Damage or XCom damage?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2014, 05:01:37 pm »
*sigh* With XCom damage, you have both flesh wounds and critical shots... That's the whole point.

thanks for the clarification Solar, since i'd like more variety and casual stile (as in real life ;) ) I'd go vanilla stile.  :)

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: TFTD Damage or XCom damage?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2014, 04:50:18 am »
I posted a thread about this somewhere else, but to clarify . . . the behavior witnessed suggesting that TFTD did damage on a 50-150% basis may just be an assumption.

I found out from someone else that TFTD generates two random numbers, adds them together, then multiplies by the damage value.

That produces a "peak" average curve similar to rolling two standard dice, making the average more reliable, but still not excluding extremes.

Later on I witnessed this on a rare event when one of my (non armored) soldiers was shot by a Sonic Cannon (130 damage) and he survived and took somewhere around 30 damage from it. According to the 50% scheme he should have taken a minimum of 65 before armor.

Offline Markus Ramikin

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Re: TFTD Damage or XCom damage?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2015, 12:48:12 pm »
I posted a thread about this somewhere else, but to clarify . . . the behavior witnessed suggesting that TFTD did damage on a 50-150% basis may just be an assumption.

I found out from someone else that TFTD generates two random numbers, adds them together, then multiplies by the damage value.

That produces a "peak" average curve similar to rolling two standard dice, making the average more reliable, but still not excluding extremes.
A gauss curve. (actually no, I shouldn't assume everything and its fleas has a normal distribution :P)

 I really like that idea. I ended up disabling the current "TFTD damage" option, because while a 150% max makes the game hard in some ways (killing Sectopods with most weapons becomes a dubious proposition), it makes the game too easy in other ways: my hovertanks almost never die, and my rookies with laser rifles and power suits almost never kill each other when mind-controlled. A two-die roll with a max at 200% would keep my strategies effective, but allow for an occasional critical hit to cost me something.

Sorry for the necro, but this was never answered and I'm curious. What do our wizards think? Has it been well-established that the TFTD damage formula is in fact 50%-150%?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 09:51:56 pm by Markus Ramikin »

Offline Meridian

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Re: TFTD Damage or XCom damage?
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2015, 01:16:58 pm »
I prefer 0-200%... 0% representing "saved by a bible (or alcohol bottle) in the vest pocket" and 200% representing a "headshot".

The problem with 50-150% is that 150% is just not enough to kill a Sectopod in a reasonable way.

I would actually prefer a 3rd option: double roll with 0-100%... this way you can have 0-200% range, but the distribution is much more realistic (resp. closer to something called normal/Gaussian distribution), with values closer to average having a higher probability. Current implementation, where all numbers are equally probable is not the best there is IMHO.

Offline NoelBuddy

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Re: TFTD Damage or XCom damage?
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2015, 07:32:43 pm »
I would actually prefer a 3rd option: double roll with 0-100%... this way you can have 0-200% range, but the distribution is much more realistic (resp. closer to something called normal/Gaussian distribution), with values closer to average having a higher probability.

Just to clarify what you are suggesting do you mean: (POWER * (1d100%))*(1d100%) = damage never mind that one wouldn't work; or DAMAGE = (POWER * 1d100%) + (POWER * 1d100%) or some possibility I'm not thinking of?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 07:37:04 pm by NoelBuddy »

Offline Meridian

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Re: TFTD Damage or XCom damage?
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2015, 07:48:04 pm »
I mean the latter.

Imagine it as throwing two 101-sided dice. First die can be between 0 and 100, second die also between 0 and 100. Together they will yield a number between 0 and 200.
The probability of throwing 0 is little less than 0.01 %, but the probability of throwing 100 is a lot higher (approx. 0.99% if my calculation is correct).

In the current implementation, all numbers are equally probable (approx. 0.49%).