Author Topic: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03  (Read 82952 times)

Offline Arthanor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
  • XCom Armoury Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2014, 07:16:50 am »
haha! That's funny. I guess it shows that it is not that innovative of a concept.

I actually came up with it when playing through with the XAE, after having researched laser cannons but when realizing that they were not quite up to the task against larger UFOs. Given that I also use Elerium bombs (and consider the small launcher as a kind of prequel to the blaster launcher), it seemed logical to have an elerium rocket before you get the fusion bomb and plasma cannon/beam.

Great minds think alike, eh? Or more likely, given the same question, different people are likely to come up with the same answer.

I haven't tried the Elerium Rockets yet, but I think they address a need between the reworked plasma cannon by Moriarty, the laser cannon and the fusion bomb, being cheaper (elerium-wise) than fusion bombs, but longer range and more damaging than the other two, and accessible relatively early to give you a chance to intercept larger UFOs.

Offline Arthanor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
  • XCom Armoury Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2014, 07:45:47 pm »
A quick question to the experienced modders before I start messing around in my code:

Is it possible to define the maxRange for different ammunitions? I have only seem it used for the weapon itself, but I'd like to tweak the shotgun provided in the XAE. Like having a buckshot with a low maxrange, and then a single slug for higher single hit damage (but lower than total buckshot damage) and a higher maxrange. Can I just define the property in the clip instead of the weapon?

Thanks!

Offline XCOMFan419

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 183
  • Wait I'm still here I swear
    • View Profile
Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2014, 10:17:50 pm »
I saw that one too, but it's too much of a change for me compared to the original. I like the quick draw mod for how it makes single shot weapons and emergency pistol shooting worthwhile. The other one.. emergency rifle?! pockets everywhere?

It definitely does get the job done, if not better, but it's not quite the job I want done. I just want something that makes carrying a pistol meaningful, which the quickdraw mod (A, since it doesn't add any storage, just adds a quick-access slot), does perfectly.
Funny you should say that...



This is what a modern day Close-Support Sapper of the Royal Engineers carry. Per soldier.

Just in 1982 this is what a Royal Marine Commando carried during the Falklands Conflict



So yes, pockets should be everywhere if they even want to compete with a modern soldier. Or hell, a soldier from the 80's.

Offline ivandogovich

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2377
  • X-Com Afficionado
    • View Profile
    • Ivan Dogovich Youtube
Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2014, 10:30:21 pm »
Hehe.... I love the pictures.  ;)

Offline Falko

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 802
    • View Profile
Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2014, 11:06:57 pm »
i always thought more of a swat team like agent not a soldier
they fly directly to the place they fight

ok i can accepts that panicky xcom soldiers can use a second pair of underwear :)

Offline Arthanor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
  • XCom Armoury Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2014, 12:18:49 am »
Yeah.. that's a lot of stuff. But honestly, I already don't use all the vanilla pockets because of weight constraints on my soldiers. Usually it's belt plus maybe something in the backpack, and a weapon, obviously.

The other thing is, although I like to expand the original, I also like to keep the game close to the original. If you give your soldiers that much more options (and a quickdraw 2nd rifle?!) and somehow manage to take advantage of it, then the aliens need something too, because they are balanced against a soldier with limited options.

I sympathize with the poor sectoid carrying his heavy plasma and one grenade.. It's just not fair (and I don't think the AI is built around taking advantage of more options either, so even if you give them more, it doesn't seem like they would really take advantage of it.. So the alternative is to make them stronger/better shots, which I don't want).

I agree with Falko: I see XCom agents as specialists that fly in, fast and deadly, to contain the situation quickly. They don't need food, they don't need multiple grenades, they can't be heavy because the fight has to be won quickly. Otherwise the aliens kill all the civilians, the crashed UFO gets rescued by another (bigger) one, or the aliens escape into the wild and will cause problems later.

Also, from the lack of answers, I guess nobody knows if you can define range parameters on clips instead of weapons?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 12:21:56 am by Arthanor »

Offline XCOMFan419

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 183
  • Wait I'm still here I swear
    • View Profile
Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2014, 12:45:35 am »
Whatever. It's your mod. Don't let me dictate it.

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 10275
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
    • Email
Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2014, 12:49:32 am »
I also view X-Com agents as more of secret service personnel than professional soldiers, judging from their starting stats and later development. I guess mercenaries with actual military background cannot be trusted enough or something.

And since they don't have much military practice, I guess they're not that good in using all this pro stuff... :)

Offline Arthanor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
  • XCom Armoury Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2014, 12:54:10 am »
@XCOMFan419
No worries ;)

Just to point out that the listed mods are just the "Recommended Mods" to play with this one. None of them are necessary. They are just the ones I enjoy with it as it makes what I consider "the optimal experience". My mod might be balanced around some of it (especially regarding pistols, they become more useful with QuickDraw), but it's meant to be used with whichever mod YOU like. You can very well use the XAE with the Extra Pockets mod instead of the QuickDraw one, or with neither one of them.

I know mods come from "modifications", but I like mine to also be "modular". It is not an all inclusive mod and does not depend on anything from another mod either. (except for Elerium rockets, which you just won't have if you don't have Elerium bombs, but it won't crash or anything, the research will just never become available).

You can use this mod with whatever you like. Extra Races, other mods that grant new fancy weapons, anything! Use any other mods you enjoy to create your preferred experience. Hopefully, you use this one as well ;)

@Solarius: Haha, the starting stats certainly don't make them look like pros.. I'd be fine with hitting half thetime, IF the other half didn't go straight in the back of another soldier or a civilian most of the time.. Or right at the feet of my soldier if using explosives...

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5285
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
    • Email
Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2014, 12:22:19 am »
@Clip-dependant ranges: No, you can't. At least per 27.07 build.

@QuickCheatSlot: I have very strong feelings towards than one, pretty much summed in how I've named it. 4 TU cost of grabbing a gun from your belt is already very low, considering how one step costs 4 TU, and dropping an item - which is as difficult as opening your hand - costs 2 TU. Lo and behold, a mod that lets you unholster a gun for 0 TU. Instantly. Come on. You need to rethink your strategy, not create cheaty mods.

Offline Arthanor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
  • XCom Armoury Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2014, 05:24:27 am »
Regarding clips: that's too bad. I'll drop it in the suggestion forum as I think it would be a good addition.

QuickCheatSlots: you are probably right, at least 2 TUs would be warranted and the vanilla's 4 is probably not outlandish. I am just looking for something to make pistols more attractive and not having the two-handed requirement isn't quite enough. The QuickDraw was a bit better but you are right that it isn't quite going the right way. I'm wary of increasing stats, since that makes it compete with the rifle, so... I don't know what to do.. As I said, the "extra pockets mod is just crazy with its rifle QuickDraw so at least that's not what I recommend.

What do you suggest?

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5285
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
    • Email
Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2014, 01:20:42 pm »
Making sure that knife is fast/strong enough so even after using 4TU to draw it's still worthwile? Pistol (untweaked) is already the best vanilla firearm, so I don't quite get what do you mean by "increasing its viability" :)

About clips: I agree, it could definitely be useful - ex. if you want to have a really well balanced shotgun which fires both shot and solid slugs.

Offline Arthanor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
  • XCom Armoury Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2014, 03:50:30 pm »
I'll add something about clips in the suggestion section.

Pistol: really? My experience has always been: ditch startup weapons ASAP, get laser rifles, get heavy plasma. Add one/two rocket/blaster launchers. I need to look at weapon stats again I guess, but I never saw pistols described as the best weapons.

Offline Falko

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 802
    • View Profile
Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2014, 04:27:55 pm »

Offline Arthanor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
  • XCom Armoury Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2014, 05:27:57 pm »
Those weapon analysis pages are really neat (but some contradict others, interestingly enough). I guess I have a bias from my experience playing the game as a kid and looking at the wimpy stats of pistols. I made up my mind then and never looked back at them.

I will likely start using a "pistol + grenade" loadout on some of my scouts (with a knife on the belt), and move 2 rifles to my breachers (all shotguns works well in the UFO, but it's pretty useless on the way to the UFO, unless you have to clear a house that you don't want to blow up).

I use (and, with the XAE, recommend using) a mod that flips the laser progression around to represent the miniaturization challenge as the main laser issue, not power. Doing that means the laser pistol comes after the (usually better) laser rifle. But given that my plasma pistol becomes available first (I also use a mod making the plasma progression follow the vanilla laser model: pistol->rifle->heavy), I guess 2/3 of my pistols are ok. Maybe I'll give pistols a maxrange, but compensate with some boost in accuracy (especially aimed).