Author Topic: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....  (Read 33168 times)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2014, 01:36:48 pm »
Nope, see the detailed article on ufopedia website. Only a successful reaction shot will give a "reaction XP", and on mission debriefing, these "reaction XPs" will occur a stat increase that doesn't depend on the soldiers starting or current stats.

Sure, s/he must be eligible to advance the skill in the first place. But if they are, they seem to advance much faster if the skill in question is low, or at least it seems to be so - like I described.

Offline Falko

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Re: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2014, 01:55:45 pm »
a +3 for a stat with 25 is "more" (12 % increase) then a +3 for a stat with 60 (5% increase) so the increase seems to be faster early on even if the absolute value stays the same

Offline Warboy1982

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Re: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2014, 04:22:52 pm »
Sure, s/he must be eligible to advance the skill in the first place. But if they are, they seem to advance much faster if the skill in question is low, or at least it seems to be so - like I described.

it's not.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2014, 05:09:47 pm »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2014, 08:27:30 pm »
One thing that most XCom player do is hire a bunch of soldiers and keep the few that meet their expectations. This hire and fire mechanic is boring and really adds nothing to the game.

It could entirely be replaced by something where the initial hiring cost of soldiers is higher but soldiers come with better stats. Set your soldiers' hiring cost 5x more and set the stats so that you keep all of them instead of 1 in 5. End result: You paid 5x the hiring cost of vanilla soldiers and you got the number of soldiers you wanted. And you saved yourself the tedium of screening.

Of course, you can't always afford to pay 5x the cost (especially in the early game) so that not entirely equivalent. Also, I think in OpenXCom the hiring cost and monthly costs are the same, so setting hiring cost at 5x means you're paying 5x the monthly costs and that's certainly not equivalent.

Personally, I have a set of statstrings that significantly speed up the screening process and that seems to take care of the useless rookie problem.

There are also plenty of ways to train your useful rookies so that they become decent. Give them the "easy" weapons so they hit aliens easily. Anything explosive is good for that, arcing explosives are the best. Missed the alien by 5 tiles? Who cares, you hit the ground, stuff explodes and you hurt the alien. Since the alien wasn't at ground zero, it survived so now rookie #2 can take a shot too!

Always give them priority in trying to kill aliens too. Your 90+ accuracy sniper sure is awesome, but let the rookies who are scouting take a few shots first (not the guy who just spotted the alien and will take reaction fire to the face though!). With laser weapons it doesn't cost you anything (except making the battle a bit longer) and once in a while, they'll hit and become better, saving your sniper's fire for when you really need it.

Finally, having advanced armors with stat bonuses helps a lot for the rookies too. Veterans need heavy armors because you don't want them to die. They already have awesome stats so they don't need the bonus. Rookies can weak crappier armor that boosts TUs/Reactions/Accuracy, allowing them to do more and thus get more experience. If the rookie gets shot and dies because his armor wasn't heavy enough, who cares? He was a rookie any ways. If he gets enough experience to become valuable, give him a heavier armor. (Or course you could also have heavy armors with stat bonuses, but then it becomes OP armor..).

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2014, 09:14:12 pm »
There are also plenty of ways to train your useful rookies so that they become decent.
Except that it's extremely wasteful to train soldiers with accuracy <50. The amount of efforts you need to make them average is the same amount that would turn an average troop into a sharpshooter.

Offline drugon

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Re: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2014, 09:23:34 pm »
TaxxiDriver
Oh, you mean decrease max possible stats so rookie soldiers would be not so weak comparing to veterans? That's... interesting decision. ^_^ I'll take a note of it and use this method in my next playthrough if nobody will create some interesting training/hiring mod by that moment.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2014, 10:55:42 pm »
Everyone has their own way of playing, but... aren't you guys taking it a bit too far? I never fire anyone, and everyone who survives becomes a decent soldier soon enough. I can't see any reason to do anything more.

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2014, 11:17:21 pm »
Everyone has their own way of playing, but... aren't you guys taking it a bit too far? I never fire anyone, and everyone who survives becomes a decent soldier soon enough. I can't see any reason to do anything more.

I'm in complete agreement with you Solarius. I like grooming rookies. :)

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2014, 09:59:01 pm »
@Solarius & Ivan: I don't know.. It's all about what you enjoy. I don't like my soldiers repeatedly missing a target a few tiles ahead of them, especially when the missed shots have this weird tendency to go ~45 degrees off and hit other soldiers/civilians.

Except that it's extremely wasteful to train soldiers with accuracy <50. The amount of efforts you need to make them average is the same amount that would turn an average troop into a sharpshooter.
That's why I say "useful rookies". I don't tend to keep rookies with accuracy <50, unless they have really good reactions and decent TUs, both of which help with the training.

Then I give them either explosive weapons (even if you can't aim, clipping an alien with an explosion from 5 tiles away will give you XP). I also aim at the floor next to the alien instead of at the alien. A shot aimed downward will hit the ground in a radius of ~3 tiles, clipping the alien in the explosion, instead of flying off the map when aimed horizontally. Or I give them shotgun like weapons and walk them real close to aliens to get at least 1 hit.

(I also have a class of armour in the XAE that's perfect for rookies, adding TUs, Accuracy and Reactions, at the cost of protection. This way they don't require as much effort to train. Even though they might die a bit more, if they were wearing that armor, they weren't really valuable yet.)

Offline MrFrustrated

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Re: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2014, 07:23:02 pm »
I don't understand why we don't just make a Combat Simulator base facility that works like a Psi Lab. It slowly trains soldiers in all stats, lower the stat, the faster improvement.

Tec that eventually lead to it would be

-medikits
-psi lab
-psi amb

Maybe
-Alien Food
-Alien Entertainment

Offline HelmetHair

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Re: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2014, 08:09:01 pm »
Totally on board with that.

Offline MrFrustrated

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Re: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2014, 01:09:34 am »
Maybe we could take care of this problem with either manufacturian and/or research.

Have your scientist research better screening methods or have your engineers build special training equepement that acts as a buff to all soldiers at the base. Obviously you could do a combination.

On a different line of thought. I don't understand why the Commander doesn't force his troops a psi attack each other every day. Even if they did it twice, the attackers would gain more skill and the defender could build up his bravery.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2014, 01:14:17 am »
You can easily make armors that boost soldier stats, although that doesn't take care of "in base training", it can represent technological development.

One could argue that the psi-lab does exactly what you describe in terms of increasing the psi-skill of soldiers. It might not be great for morale/cohesion to have people psi-attack/MC each other regularly either.

In the end, training is a feature that plenty of people want, including Warboy when he was working on his own mod/Tweaked OXC. We'll probably see it happen, after TftD.

Offline Warboy1982

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Re: Soldiers to recruit.... elite....
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2014, 04:13:07 am »
i've actually recoded that just recently by request for someone on IRC, i'll probably PR yankes with it.