[CRAFT] 4 weapon aircraft

[Dioxine]

Hell yeah. This would allow for making truly varied ships; right now there isn't enough variation. If there were also varied slot sizes... we could outdo Apocalypse here I'd definitely want this feature implemented! But more than 4 weapons are really uneccessary.

Crucial things that have been said:
- varied slot types, so you can go, say 1xCannon, 2xStingray/Avalanche, but no 3xeither (slot being an array like weaponTypes [0, 1, 2, 4], you could have any number of "types" and any slot could have any combination of them;
- sizes (say weapon taking 2 slots) would just confuse people due to how the interface looks and are unneccesary;
- "weapons" that increase speed, health, radar, fuel, whatever - brilliant! This would allow to upgrade ships as the tech progresses, and custom-tailor them to their role.
- Sorting weapons by range on the interception window. Small, but important idea
- Marking slot types: probably unneccessary. Not everything has to be marked, the slot would display the list of valid weapons available when clicked, so why clutter the interface. Also this is simple enough that people can simply learn what goes where in what craft.

Hope Warboy is going to change his mind, this feature might not be vanilla but it's modder's heaven, especially after externalizing radar ranges and so on... while not altering the base game in any way, and certainly being *in the vein* of XCom (Apocalypse did this!)

[skymarshall]

Suspect your branch will become a de facto starting point for modders once they realise it exists, but from warboys perspective changes like this are a maintenance nightmare even if they're coded well.

Dioxine - agree 100% that slot sizes would pollute the interface without adding much that couldn't be done by slot types.  If you really wanted a big gun that could only be mounted in one place (like apoc's heavy disrupter), you could just give it its own type.

 Slot types are definitely tough to represent on the interface at 320x200.  I wondered if rather than displaying the slot number (actually a bit useless), the buttons could show text like "Missile" (and be a bit bigger), or ideally have small icons to distinguish the types of equipment allowed in place of the number.

[guille1434]

Yes, this would be very good from the point of view of "customizing" the aircraft...  I really would be so happy to see it implemented...

Also, craft weapons could be given a weight (and may be each hardpoint a maximum weight carrying capacity, so you could limit what weapon can be fixed to any particular hardpoint), and the craft can also be given "encumbrance"... so if you put a heavy weapon load on a craft, it would suffer some performance penalty in range - speed - acceleration, just like the foot soldiers when given a heavy load of equipment.

 Another idea I want to put under consideration is that if X-Com ground soldiers improve with their battle experience... Why not to add the recruitment of aicraft pilots and assign them to craft and also they will be gaining batter stats after they battle the UFOs in air-to-air combat... Also if the aircraft is damaged, they would return to base with wounds, and they will also be a number of days off-duty, just like the foot soldiers... Also, if the craft is destroyed it can be made that there is a chance that the pilot ejected and then you can mount a rescue mission to save the valuable pilot from the aliens who want to capture or kill him (more or less like Ufo Aftermath). I know that this is not very "Vanilla X-Com", but it would be only an optional addition, and any player could choose not to play with this feature. I think it would be nice to have "Air aces" modded in game. Just my two cents to this wonderful and immortal game!!! :-) 

[Solarius Scorch]

So far I know about this, more than 8 bases and extended view range.

And the Commendations mod.

[Dioxine]

I'd have preferred XCom soldiers to pilot the crafts themselves... there was an old discussion I took part in how to make this work mechanics-wise (skills used: bravery, reactions, firing acc), I've proposed mechanics of pilot's wounding/KIA/rescue etc. as well. Of course you could kill 2 birds with 1 stone if more than 1 type of Xcom soldier was supported (so a modder could have it both ways - either sticking to 1 type like I would, or adding special "pilot" class who's the only class who can pilot (but would be available for ground missions as well - only his non-aircraft related stats would be rather abysmal..."

[guille1434]

Yes, the pilot could be added in the craft cockpit in the battlescape... and should also be, in an emergency, able to defend himself, but his ground combat stats, and quantity of weaponry and armor he can carry should not be the same as the infantry troops. And, yes, is a good idea to add the pilot as a unit in the battlefield but with the special "pilot" skill... It would look like a soldier, but he should be the only one able to pilot the craft. In short, a unit (soldier) with the same stat classes as the regular troops but with the added pilot attribute.

That would be nice!

[moriarty]

Scientists in apoc had a "science skill"...

I could see two ways something more "global" could be implemented:

1) a unit can have one "special stat". If it doesn't have one, it is a soldier. If it's "piloting", it's a pilot. There's also "engineering" and "science". In a battlescape, the basic stats are used (base defense etc.). For vanilla purposes, engineers and scientists have their special stat at 100 ( = percent of one work hour provided by unit) and cannot improve their special stat

2) every unit has every stat... in a modded game, even soldiers could be used to manufacture or research stuff, although most will suck at doing so. But perhaps you have a scientist who actually shoots rather well, and can be useful in a battlefield situation... I could totally imagine a modded game where you have much less personnell, but each is much more versatile... a game where the choice may be "do I take Agent Johnson on that downed UFO mission because he's good with his SMG, or do I leave him in the lab, researching that alien artifact..."

[guille1434]

Very well said Moriarty! I like this idea... For example, engineers can do (a less efficient) scientist work, and viceversa... Also they can form a last stand base defense if there are no soldiers present or if the squad is out. May be we will have to mod in some acid filled flasks as improvised hand-thrown wepons? Hehe...

[Solarius Scorch]

Agreed! This works for the super-secret organization like X-Com.

[moriarty]

It would need to be implemented carefully, though, to avoid disturbing the vanilla experience. That said, I guess this falls cleanly into the realm of modding. It would still be nice, though. I always liked apoc's way of "fleshing out" the scientists and engineers by giving them names and stats.

For keeping it close(r) to vanilla, I'd say my abovementioned option 1) is better. In order to make it as "open" as possible, I'd prefer option 2). It's more RPG-like.

[Dioxine]

I like option 2 (also, programming-wise, it's probably even easier to implement than 1), although a single "piloting" skill sounds kind of bland I was thinking about several aspects of piloting:
- craft weapon accuracy [firing accuracy]
- the speed of getting close/disengaging UFO [bravery]
- "dodge" (effectively decreases UFO accuracy) [reactions]

But a Piloting skill could be an overaching % modifier, affecting the effect of the aforementioned; with a normal soldier (scientist, engineer) having it at 0, his bravery etc. won't improve his performance in craft combat. A pilot who increases 4 skills, however... this sounds much more interesting than increasing a single skill (pilots much more varied, but only 1 new skill).

Engineers and Scientists however only need their respective Engineering and Science skills as vanilla doesn't give them any area of performance than "working faster"; but the ability to take them on missions sounds cool!

[smexyvami]

I like option 2 (also, programming-wise, it's probably even easier to implement than 1), although a single "piloting" skill sounds kind of bland I was thinking about several aspects of piloting:
- craft weapon accuracy [firing accuracy]
- the speed of getting close/disengaging UFO [bravery]
- "dodge" (effectively decreases UFO accuracy) [reactions]

But a Piloting skill could be an overaching % modifier, affecting the effect of the aforementioned; with a normal soldier (scientist, engineer) having it at 0, his bravery etc. won't improve his performance in craft combat. A pilot who increases 4 skills, however... this sounds much more interesting than increasing a single skill (pilots much more varied, but only 1 new skill).

Engineers and Scientists however only need their respective Engineering and Science skills as vanilla doesn't give them any area of performance than "working faster"; but the ability to take them on missions sounds cool!

on that note you could have designated soldiers like heavy weapons,sniper,medic,ect maybe having there proficiency affected by there armors like medics work better in lighter armor 

[Solarius Scorch]

on that note you could have designated soldiers like heavy weapons,sniper,medic,ect maybe having there proficiency affected by there armors like medics work better in lighter armor

Considering rookies seemingly have no combat training AT ALL, I don't think they should have combat specializations...

[smexyvami]

Considering rookies seemingly have no combat training AT ALL, I don't think they should have combat specializations...

 this is true but there life style befor becing xcom can be taken into condiseration ie hunter people hunt for sport of for the fun of the kill and meat of the animal some people are good shots so thay can be adept for sniper classes

[Arthanor]

Classes could be interesting, but it defeats the purpose of the flexible stat system and random recruits of XCom.

A possible alternative would be being able to recruit multiple classes of rookies. Soldier with good combat stats, marksman with higher accuracy, lower everything else, medic (with higher "healing" if that ever becomes a stat), combat engineer (ex.: explosives do more damage). But balancing all the kinds so they are relevant, and implementing support for classes in the game, is probably too much work to be worth it (and far enough to the original that the developers might not even be interested).