Author Topic: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures  (Read 18688 times)

Offline skyhawk

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Re: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2014, 01:25:30 am »
And it's done!

Should be able to be downloaded here: -- See below or top post on the thread for current download --
https://www.dropbox.com/s/esmyeqlwlwegwb8/OpenXCom-MT32.zip

I'm pretty happy with it overall, though I couldn't quite get the interception music looping perfectly. Constructive criticism is appreciated, and if anyone thinks they can do a better job looping I'd be happy to make the Audacity project files available.

I don't like this soundtrack enough to bother normally, but if there's any interest I might make a reverb-enhanced music pack. The MT-32 has little-known adjustable hardware reverb, and on better pieces it sounds _fantastic_. For an example of the effect, skip to about 1:45 (or don't!) on this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqPRCi2ji6k

Also, SupSuper, you got the filenames for the Base Defense briefing and the regular briefing reversed.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 11:40:36 am by skyhawk »

Offline Tarvis

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Re: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2014, 03:02:54 am »
If you pack up the project files and host them, I'll help you cut them properly for looping. A lot of tracks seems to have a bit missing off the beginning, and others like INTRO1/2 are cut wrong.

Here's the tracks that need re-doing:
-GMINTRO1 and 2 (the end of 1 is put into the beginning of 2, you can probably just cut and paste it back over)
-GMINTER (The beginning is moved to the end, could probably just be re-cut)
-GMNEWMAR (Seems to have a lot missing, if you have a longer recording I could just re-cut it)

The following are fine but seem to have a tiny bit cut off the beginning:
-GMENBASE (very slight)
-GMINTRO3
-GMWIN (This isn't meant to loop so it doesn't really matter)

The rest are fine.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 03:28:34 am by Tarvis »

Offline SupSuper

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Re: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2014, 03:17:03 am »
The MIDI tracks have a lot of blank space. The game probably automatically switches between them to keep timing, so the length doesn't matter. I'd say just go with your gut, since each part has very different instrumentality and scenes:
INTRO1 is just a quiet mood-setter like the menu theme.
INTRO2 starts when the muton leader screams and ramps it up.
INTRO3 starts at the ALERT and sets up X-COM fighting back.

Offline skyhawk

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Re: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2014, 05:28:22 am »
If you pack up the project files and host them, I'll help you cut them properly for looping. A lot of tracks seems to have a bit missing off the beginning, and others like INTRO1/2 are cut wrong.

Here's the tracks that need re-doing:
-GMINTRO1 and 2 (the end of 1 is put into the beginning of 2, you can probably just cut and paste it back over)
-GMINTER (The beginning is moved to the end, could probably just be re-cut)
-GMNEWMAR (Seems to have a lot missing, if you have a longer recording I could just re-cut it)

The following are fine but seem to have a tiny bit cut off the beginning:
-GMENBASE (very slight)
-GMINTRO3
-GMWIN (This isn't meant to loop so it doesn't really matter)

The rest are fine.
Lesson learned. Take a capture, SAVE the capture before processing, then process in a different project. I've cut and trimmed some of these up enough I don't think I have footage to easily re-cut them again.

The division between INTRO1 and INTRO2 seems totally arbitrary to me, and I'll gladly let someone else cut up that one. My GMINTRO3 was cut from this so I'm not sure how/if it's wrong, but feel free to re-cut as you see fit.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rqsbwd8xgeoethb/GMINTRO_raw.7z -- I'm pretty sure I've already normalized that one, so just chop it up and export to OGGs.

GMINTER no longer has two complete loops to work with. It could be salvaged, but it's probably less work for me to just re-capture it and try my hand at cutting it again.

GMNEWMAR is fine and complete, as far as I can tell. It's the same length as the GUS soundtrack I'm using as reference, and listening to the raw recording it's only about a 30-second loop. If you're certain there's something wrong with it I'll give you the capture, but please check again as I'm pretty sure it's fine. Again I've only got my cut version, so I'll recapture this if you still think there's an issue with it.

I no longer have an uncut version of GMWIN. I'm not sure how I would've screwed that up, but that'll be easy enough to recapture. (I've got a savegame that's one turn from victory)

I'm also lacking an uncut version of GMENBASE. Yay for more recapturing.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 02:32:34 pm by skyhawk »

Offline SupSuper

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Re: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2014, 06:33:39 am »
Something I noticed is your INTRO1 doesn't have the extra cop siren sound played in this Roland-MT32 recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIMGd1Hr_JU
Different card maybe?

Offline skyhawk

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Re: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2014, 07:10:49 am »
Something I noticed is your INTRO1 doesn't have the extra cop siren sound played in this Roland-MT32 recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIMGd1Hr_JU
Different card maybe?
Yep. Broadly speaking, there's two generations of MT-32 family devices. In a perfect world, I'd only play a given game on the device from it's era. Unfortunately, I only have the one module.

The first family consists only of the older revision MT-32 synthesizer modules, like mine. (This is an external machine connected via MIDI, not a PCB in a computer).

Once it took off and became the de-facto standard for high-end game music, Roland released a second generation of devices.
These second generation devices had more samples (like that siren), less noisy output, headphone jacks, and didn't freeze or crash if sent rapid SysEx messages. Problem is, they weren't totally backwards compatible. The newer devices have unavoidable, horrible clipping in some games, and sometimes produce different results on custom patches than early revision units. These second generation units come in a variety of forms, external synth modules like mine, dedicated "computer music" modules without the controls, and the LAPC-I, an ISA add-in card.

Wikipedia can give you more details, and there's an insanely long Youtube video that goes into extreme depth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NUQpAZeAdo

Offline skyhawk

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Re: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2014, 09:56:56 am »
-GMINTER (The beginning is moved to the end, could probably just be re-cut)
I see why I'm having problems now. Because of how this piece loops (that drum loop right before the cut), the MT-32 is still rendering a lot of reverb over the start of the new loop, hence it sounds like ass on the first playback. I'm going to publish a v2 of the music pack, with the "correct" (I think) GMINTER. I actually have my raw rips this time, so we can debate how/if to cut it differently at that time.

I don't see a way to capture the complete and full song correctly, without running into this problem. My initial reaction would be to skip the first one or two beats and put the start of the song at the end of the loop, which is what I (incompetently) tried to do the first time.

Offline skyhawk

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Re: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2014, 10:29:33 am »
The following are fine but seem to have a tiny bit cut off the beginning:
-GMENBASE (very slight)
-GMINTRO3
-GMWIN (This isn't meant to loop so it doesn't really matter)

Tarvis,

I have to ask - are you listening to these tracks in a separate media player application, and is your computer connected to an external audio receiver via something like TOSlink or Coaxial digital?

That's my setup, and I've found the receiver goes to "sleep" if it's not receiving a signal. It wakes up _really_ fast, but can still sometimes miss the first note of something. I've actually got a "Silent" WAV file looping continuously in the background right now to keep the receiver awake.

I ask because all of your notes of "Chopped a little off at the beginning" aren't panning out for me. I'm comparing the files I published with my new captures, and they're the same.

Offline skyhawk

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Re: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2014, 11:37:51 am »
Revision 2 of the music pack is available now:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7boc4wsabfnrc2c/OpenXCom-UFO-MT32-rev2.zip

Near as I can tell, this is complete and properly looped and cut. There are two points worthy of discussion:

1) GMINTER has a drum roll right before it loops, and the MT-32 is reverbing that over the loop point, making the very start of the first playback sound a little lousy. I suggest we consider moving the first two beats of the song to the "end" of the loop, which (in my opinion) won't be noticeable, and will improve the quality of the first play-through.

2) GMNEWMAR appears to be substantially different between the General Midi and the MT-32 version. The MT-32 version is very bare. As this was probably written for GM and ported to the MT-32 this was probably an oversight on the developers' part. It should be noted that patch 1.4 completely broke Roland playback, and required a fan-made correction to fix it, so it should be safe to say the Roland support wasn't exactly extensively tested.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 02:35:12 pm by skyhawk »

Offline HunterZ

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Re: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2014, 02:37:14 am »
Something I noticed is your INTRO1 doesn't have the extra cop siren sound played in this Roland-MT32 recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIMGd1Hr_JU
Different card maybe?
This is because X-COM actually expects a Roland CM-32/LAPC-I compatible synth, which contains extra sounds not provided by the MT-32.

I also own a real MT-32 (and SC-88) but would like to someday acquire a CM-32 as well. Unfortunately the latter are a lot more rare these days.

Offline HunterZ

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Re: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2014, 04:41:20 am »
For some reason these sound like almost pure noise on the Android version. I have some SC-55 OGGs that sound fine, and these MT-32 ones play fine in an Android media player app, so it must be something with the Android build of OpenXcom I guess.

Offline sfalexrog

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Re: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2014, 03:20:33 pm »
Wow, that Roland sound, just... wow. I knew Rolands were good, but I've never known they're THAT good. Makes me really wish I'd owned one at some point.

And about that Android version, well, looks like it's some weird problem with resampling. I've tried saving the music as 22050 Hz oggs, and they seemed to work fine for me, although it sounded noticeably worse. Also, setting OpenXcom's sample rate to 48000 made sound effects higher-pitched. So I guess one should use 44100 Hz oggs for maximum compatibility, and 48000 Hz high-quality sound should always be there for completeness' sake.

Offline skyhawk

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Re: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2014, 07:08:11 am »
So I've been experimenting with GMINTER, trying to find a better loop point, and the musician really didn't give me much to work with. There's no 'slack space' to play with. If I start even just a few beats into the piece, it totally wrecks the progression.

Unless the OpenXCom devs give me a way to implement a 'Start at 0m:00s, play until the end, then loop to 0m:55s' there's no way I can make this loop properly and sound good at the beginning.

This also puts a serious wrench into an 'enhanced reverb' music pack, as enhancing the reverb will just make the start/loop point of GMINTER sound even worse than it already does.

Any suggestions on long-term hosting? I'd rather not keep this on my Dropbox for forever.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 07:16:52 am by skyhawk »

Offline HunterZ

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Re: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2014, 07:22:26 am »
Any suggestions on long-term hosting? I'd rather not keep this on my Dropbox for forever.
Have you tried contacting the guy who maintains the soundtrack web page? It's at https://users.atw.hu/xcom-sounds/ although there isn't any contact info there - just the name Fenyo.

Offline skyhawk

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Re: New to OpenXCom, would like to provide Roland MT-32 captures
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2014, 07:43:22 am »
Have you tried contacting the guy who maintains the soundtrack web page? It's at https://users.atw.hu/xcom-sounds/ although there isn't any contact info there - just the name Fenyo.
I'd love to have this hosted on his site, but I'm drawing a blank on methods of contacting him...