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Author Topic: Several Suggestions  (Read 5618 times)

Offline Zargul

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Several Suggestions
« on: June 03, 2014, 07:13:10 pm »
As somebody who played X-Com and similar games now for few Years I loved some of the concepts, other people came up with.
Some of it got already modded in, like Sniperrifles, but some other Ideas were still pretty neat.


Damaging Armor:
Something that TTS had and which is honestly very realistic.

As soon as you have the strongest Armor in the game, most weapons just do not injure your soldiers anymore.
Though Armor only suffers damage if the Soldier IS wounded, making Armor literally unrealistic.

So a plasma pistol hit might not cause any injury when wearing a power armor but weakening the armor, making the X-Com Operative not invulnerable against a specific type of damage or weak weapons.

Eventually the Armor will give in and a hit causes an injury or Aliens with better weapon have an easier target if the armor is already damaged.


Medbays/Configurable Recovery-Time/Critical Health:

High Health always had a big downside.
Even small amounts of lost health (not counting Increase due to Armor) puts a Soldier into Wound-Recovery for a very very long time.
High Amounts of lost health can render even the best Soldier useless for 30-40 days.
Eventhough they are not fully lost, you need to replace them all with Recruits or Veterans with less Health, which can suffer a lower Recovery-Time but will likely die immediately.

Therefore I came up with the Idea, of having a Medbay(Similar to the one in Warboy's "War"-Mod) and Critical Condition.

Lore-wise we can see it like this: Since Plasma Weapons were never used in Warfare on Earth, public and military Hospitals are not able to treat the wounds which were inflicted properly. Therefore the Recovery-Time for wounded Soldiers using public healthcare is very high.

In the mid-Game the player should be able to research the X-Com Medbay after researching Alien-Surgery.
This gives the Player the ability to heal wounded soldiers much faster. (Maybe a ratio of 5:1? Instead of 5 days in a normal Hospital the Soldier will be only 1 day in the Medbay. Anyway this is just an Idea.)


Another Idea taken from TTS is the Idea of Soldiers going into Critical. This Idea got also picked up in the new XCom:EU, but was implemented very badly.

So it is actually very simple: As soon as a Soldier lost all his Healthpoints the remaining damage will lower his max-health.
The Soldier will be unconscious and not reviveable. Bleeding wounds will cause further damage to his max-health until the Soldier dies from losing all his Health.

Health increasing Armor will delay the effect of losing permanently health, while healing wounds will save the Soldiers life.

The Advantages are:
-Veterans and Soldiers with good armor will survive a fatal situation
-Max-Health can be (hopefully) restored by gaining experience


Disadvantages:
-Soldiers will suffer a long recovery time. (The damage applied during Critical should also count toward Recovery-Time. It'd be unlogical if a Soldier who survived with 30HP takes longer to recover as one who only had 12HP left.)
-They cannot be revived in Combat, rendering them as useful as if they were dead.
-Permanent Healthloss can render some Soldiers very fragile.




This would be my Suggestions for now.
Enjoy discussing.


Offline Shoes

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Re: Several Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2014, 10:16:57 pm »
I like these ideas; they seem quite logical. The critical hp thing is interesting as well. Your ideas seem well enough organised that a modder could put a few hours of work and create these 3 items. They would have to be source mods (maybe not the medbay, but probably).

If I didn't have so many things going on already I would probably try my hand at doing this, but no time :3

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Several Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2014, 04:24:01 am »
Well, these ideas aren't random rambling, they're sound and logical. We need more posts like this. ;)

Damaging Armor:

Yes. However, armour should only be damaged from a certain point; shooting pistol bullets at a tank shouldn't do much.


Medbays/Configurable Recovery-Time/Critical Health:
The medical bay idea is sound and logical, I wouldn't mind seeing it implemented. It was indeed implemented in some other games, for example UFO: Extraterrestrials.
Having said that, health recovery should be percentage-based in the first place; the fact that someone with more Health takes longer to recover from losing half their Health is silly.

Another Idea taken from TTS is the Idea of Soldiers going into Critical.

Frankly, I have no idea what this feature is supposed to add to the game. Make it a little easier, yes; but nothing else. You may as well propose better armours or whatever.

EDIT: I forgot to ask, WTF is TTS? :)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 06:43:28 am by Solarius Scorch »

Offline winterheart

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Re: Several Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2014, 08:51:53 am »
EDIT: I forgot to ask, WTF is TTS? :)

UFO: The Two Sides

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Several Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2014, 01:21:50 pm »
the fact that someone with more Health takes longer to recover from losing half their Health is silly.
The same wound causes the same amount of hospital time for everybody. A character with high HP has extra-ordinary resistance to pain and will to survive, an ability to stay functional when a less hardened character would have gone into shock and died - but it doesn't mean he heals 2 times faster from a plasma burn.
If you want to reduce hospital time, it's possible to define a formula that curbs the hospital time for extreme wounds, for example round((60-wounds)*0.005*wounds+0.5*wounds) which results in maximum 30 days:
lost HP   recovery
0   0
1   1
2   2
3   2
4   3
5   4
6   5
7   5
8   6
9   7
10   8
15   11
20   14
25   17
30   20
35   22
40   24
45   26
50   28
55   29
60   30


Offline kharille

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Re: Several Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2014, 03:38:27 pm »
War is not nice.  Soldiers who take major hits need cybernetic replacements.  It'll be an expense, and you'll wonder whether it might be better to 'retire' them rather than having to build your 60 million dollar men....

Offline Zargul

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Re: Several Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2014, 05:34:25 pm »
War is not nice.  Soldiers who take major hits need cybernetic replacements.  It'll be an expense, and you'll wonder whether it might be better to 'retire' them rather than having to build your 60 million dollar men....

Oh it depends on the injury. And since X-Com is an organization with funds from all over the world, which have even the technology to build a Spaceship(Avenger), I doubt it very much that Advanced Medical Technology would cost THAT much.

The same wound causes the same amount of hospital time for everybody. A character with high HP has extra-ordinary resistance to pain and will to survive, an ability to stay functional when a less hardened character would have gone into shock and died - but it doesn't mean he heals 2 times faster from a plasma burn.
If you want to reduce hospital time, it's possible to define a formula that curbs the hospital time for extreme wounds, for example round((60-wounds)*0.005*wounds+0.5*wounds) which results in maximum 30 days:

I agree there partially and disagree partially. A Soldier with high HP is of course more tough and resistant against pain and all this bad stuff, still he might also recover faster from such an injury as a Plasma-Burn as somebody who went into shock from it.

The medical bay idea is sound and logical, I wouldn't mind seeing it implemented. It was indeed implemented in some other games, for example UFO: Extraterrestrials.
Having said that, health recovery should be percentage-based in the first place; the fact that someone with more Health takes longer to recover from losing half their Health is silly.

Frankly, I have no idea what this feature is supposed to add to the game. Make it a little easier, yes; but nothing else. You may as well propose better armours or whatever.

I was actually talking about the WAR-Mod from Warboy, when I suggested the Medbay, but I also liked Extraterrestrials.

And there I agree: Percentage-based wound-recovery is a MUST. Gameplay technical it makes a lot of sense and since the game doesn't have specific wounds it might be more benifical than the current system.
Losing 4-5HP shouldn't kick one into Hospital for days.

To the Critical: It adds a slightly better way to "lose Soldiers in Combat".
Losing a Veteran at 0 HP is quite annoying, especially if the standard game is a "Either you gain damage and die instantly due to heavy plasma" or "You got hit but survive it.".
I know it's X-Com and it is supposed to be hard, but it's just silly if you have a Soldier in a thick and heavy armor suit that protects the full body and he dies because of a single lucky hit.

The Gameplay will be a slightly bit fairer and more logical with Soldiers going into Critical.
While a Operative without any Armor will suffer an instant death, somebody in a Power suit can actually survive heavy plasma hit. (Even if heavily injured afterwards)

Offline Falko

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Re: Several Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2014, 06:38:34 pm »
recoverry time is generated in BattleUnit.cpp by
s->setWoundRecovery(RNG::generate((healthLoss*0.5),(healthLoss*1.5)));

and the healing seems to be in in soldier.cpp try to change the setWoundRecovery method
with the faste rhealing option https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=max%281%2Cceil%28x%2F10%29-3%29+%3B+x%3D25+to+60 you get 1 heathpoint/day until 40 health then 2 healthpoints/day and 3 after ~50 health [health can be 25-40 at start and cap=60]
Code: [Select]
void Soldier::setWoundRecovery(int recovery)
{
if (Options::SomeNewOptionFasterHealing){
int recoveryperday=std::max(1,std::ceil(x/10)-3) https://see https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=max%281%2Cceil%28x%2F10%29-3%29+%3B+x%3D25+to+60
_recovery = (int)(recovery/recoveryperday);
}else{
_recovery = recovery;
}

https:// dismiss from craft
if (_recovery > 0)
{
_craft = 0;
}
}
i also like the armor partial damage idea

Offline moriarty

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Re: Several Suggestions
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2014, 03:55:03 pm »
another thing about wound recovery: similar to the "aircraft can be launched at all times" mechanic, shouldn't it be possible to send a wounded soldier into battle? of course the critical wounds should be exempt, but there's no good reason to leave the 80-HP-soldier in bed with 76 health when there's a terror mission and his replacement is a 30-health-rookie.

by the way, what happens when the base is attacked and all soldiers are wounded? do you automatically lose? shouldn't the (lightly-)wounded soldiers take part in the base defense?

Offline Zargul

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Re: Several Suggestions
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2014, 05:05:14 pm »
another thing about wound recovery: similar to the "aircraft can be launched at all times" mechanic, shouldn't it be possible to send a wounded soldier into battle? of course the critical wounds should be exempt, but there's no good reason to leave the 80-HP-soldier in bed with 76 health when there's a terror mission and his replacement is a 30-health-rookie.

by the way, what happens when the base is attacked and all soldiers are wounded? do you automatically lose? shouldn't the (lightly-)wounded soldiers take part in the base defense?

I absolutely agree.
A wounded soldier shouldn't have problems to participe in a battle just because he sustained minor bruisings.

Maybe they should have less Max-Health as somebody who would have been healed? (Otherwise healing over Medkits would be possible if they sustain new fatal wounds)


Offline yrizoud

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Re: Several Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2014, 07:48:42 pm »
I agree, It's pretty much the player's responsibility to see how risky he can go.
I would find it fair to "pay" a much higher recovery time while a soldier is attached to a ship - he's on guard duty, ready to lift off in a matter of seconds, instead of the calm of a medicalized bed.
- Sergeant ? You're with us on this crash recovery ? Aren't you supposed to see this arm fixed ?
- I missed your lovely face, squaddie! *evil grin* *bonks helmets* *furiously scratches laser wound*.



Offline clownagent

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Re: Several Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2014, 10:23:52 pm »
another thing about wound recovery: similar to the "aircraft can be launched at all times" mechanic, shouldn't it be possible to send a wounded soldier into battle? of course the critical wounds should be exempt, but there's no good reason to leave the 80-HP-soldier in bed with 76 health when there's a terror mission and his replacement is a 30-health-rookie.

by the way, what happens when the base is attacked and all soldiers are wounded? do you automatically lose? shouldn't the (lightly-)wounded soldiers take part in the base defense?

So true. Wounded soldiers should be able to fight in important missions.