Author Topic: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)  (Read 539969 times)

Offline XCOMFan419

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #315 on: July 25, 2014, 02:15:00 pm »
Gah! You beat me to it. I was going to make explosive ammo for the Tank/Cannon and autoshot for the Tank/Rocket Launcher.

I also noticed you had auto shot laser tanks...

D'aw. I was having fun testing out my own models. Oh well. This mod is good fun. As the OP states, not for everyone. It's fun, but it's really hard during the first terror missions due to Cyberdisks. Really fun mod. I've tried it out on two occasions, but the Cyberdisks keep killing half my team due to lack of laser weapons. Tank/Rocket Launchers help, but only to a point. When I did get the lasers, I was confused because I hadn't met MiB yet and we were producing clones of their weapons  :P Great fun. Loved it. Didn't finish it due the save being corrupted because of my own stupidity...

-

Permission to look at your code to see where I keep going wrong with my own tanks? I won't take anything without your permission, I just want to see where I keep going wrong with my own tanks. I've so far only made one, a Tank/Plasma (not a hover) and it was really confusing to me at the time.

PS: I'm new to modding.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #316 on: July 25, 2014, 02:28:06 pm »
Gah! You beat me to it. I was going to make explosive ammo for the Tank/Cannon and autoshot for the Tank/Rocket Launcher.

Lol. Sorry. :) But I'd be happy to hear some opinions on balance, since I didn't have the time to test it thoroughly.

I also noticed you had auto shot laser tanks...

Yeah. The general idea is: threaded tanks have the auto-shot option and better snap shot accuracy, because hovertanks have minor stabilization issues, but they are more resilient and faster (and, obviously, hovering).

D'aw. I was having fun testing out my own models. Oh well. This mod is good fun. As the OP states, not for everyone. It's fun, but it's really hard during the first terror missions due to Cyberdisks.

Hey, that's not me, that's vanilla! :P

Although I admit me taking away early lasers from you makes them worse. My advice would be: use fire. Flamethrowers work well on Cyberdisks.

Tank/Rocket Launchers help, but only to a point. When I did get the lasers, I was confused because I hadn't met MiB yet and we were producing clones of their weapons  :P

Heh. :P I was hoping this wouldn't be happening, considering how prevalent the MiB are. Still, this isn't a problem I guess, since the weapon descriptions only mention the MiB use them, there's no actual erroneous logic... I think.

Great fun. Loved it. Didn't finish it due the save being corrupted because of my own stupidity...

Ouch. :( But don't worry, start again, each new version keeps getting better! ;)

Permission to look at your code to see where I keep going wrong with my own tanks? I won't take anything without your permission, I just want to see where I keep going wrong with my own tanks. I've so far only made one, a Tank/Plasma (not a hover) and it was really confusing to me at the time.

No, common people are forbidden from looking at my sacred code! :P But seriously, do whatever you wish with it; much of it was made by other people anyway. And I think that a modder who forbids others from reusing their work, and expecting people to honour this, is in need of professional help. And a smack on the head. :)

Offline XCOMFan419

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #317 on: July 25, 2014, 02:49:54 pm »
Lol. Sorry. :) But I'd be happy to hear some opinions on balance, since I didn't have the time to test it thoroughly.

I'd suggest adding Autoshot to the Tank/Cannon. I think someone stated that the calibre was 20mm-30mm. Usually these cannons are autocannons/chain guns, and are fired in bursts. I think make it a little more realistic, and possibly with more use - rivalling that of the Tank/Rocket Launcher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfXLEURxozc#t=45

Adding in civilian's "new" tanks, or at least the Artillery tank, would be a nice addition. I found the Artillery tank to be very useful for both close and long range support on downed UFO missions and landing sites. I added autoshot myself and made the ammo capacity a little bigger, due to Grenade Launchers usually firing a few times, like on the AAV-7A1 AMTRAC.

Yeah. The general idea is: threaded tanks have the auto-shot option and better snap shot accuracy, because hovertanks have minor stabilization issues, but they are more resilient and faster (and, obviously, hovering).

Reasonable. Even though Lasers have little to no recoil (2 million times less than .22).

Hey, that's not me, that's vanilla! :P

Although I admit me taking away early lasers from you makes them worse. My advice would be: use fire. Flamethrowers work well on Cyberdisks.

It's weird how the flamethrowers worked on them :p But hey, XCOM Logic. I find spamming grenades and rockets help a little bit.

Heh. :P I was hoping this wouldn't be happening, considering how prevalent the MiB are. Still, this isn't a problem I guess, since the weapon descriptions only mention the MiB use them, there's no actual erroneous logic... I think.

It was probably my fault considering I only get a new base every month until I'm financially stable. But I'm just going to presume that Governments of the world felt bad that MiB already had lasers and I didn't :p so they gave us their designs

Ouch. :( But don't worry, start again, each new version keeps getting better! ;)
Just about to start a new playthrough. Might give it another go if no other mods catch my interest in the coming week.

No, common people are forbidden from looking at my sacred code! :P But seriously, do whatever you wish with it; much of it was made by other people anyway. And I think that a modder who forbids others from reusing their work, and expecting people to honour this, is in need of professional help. And a smack on the head. :)

All right! Thanks. I promise I won't plagiarize your code. I'll just stroll on in and see what's wrong with my own code and make it a little bit better. I was thinking of making a HWP compilation that adds AutoShot to most tanks and combining most tanks that people have made into one mod pack - within reason and credits of course.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 02:53:04 pm by XCOMFan419 »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #318 on: July 25, 2014, 03:16:11 pm »
I'd suggest adding Autoshot to the Tank/Cannon. I think someone stated that the calibre was 20mm-30mm. Usually these cannons are autocannons/chain guns, and are fired in bursts. I think make it a little more realistic, and possibly with more use - rivalling that of the Tank/Rocket Launcher.

Sure, this can be done, but we need to decide: either this, or explosive rounds.

Unless the blast power is significantly decreased, to something like 30 (which is much more deadly than an AP round with strength 30, as explosives hit against under armour, which is usually puny).

What do you think?

Adding in civilian's "new" tanks, or at least the Artillery tank, would be a nice addition. I found the Artillery tank to be very useful for both close and long range support on downed UFO missions and landing sites.

I've been thinking about something like this, but I don't have a clear vision of how to balance it yet.

Reasonable. Even though Lasers have little to no recoil (2 million times less than .22).

It's not just recoil, it's a mechanical limitation of smoothly rotating the barrel in small increments - one of the biggest struggles of anti-air cannons today.

It's weird how the flamethrowers worked on them :p But hey, XCOM Logic. I find spamming grenades and rockets help a little bit.

Nothing we can do about it, so let's pretend it's all normal. :)

It was probably my fault considering I only get a new base every month until I'm financially stable.

One per month should be enough, as long as you are adamant about it. Not having the Earth well covered is the easiest way to lose with the Men in Black on. Remember to watch the graphs for sudden UFO activity spikes - after all these years, graphs are finally useful! :) Do it especially when you are doing poorly points-wise, and you don't know why. If you find some consistent activity in an unsupervised region, it's almost for sure a MiB base which will ruin your game within a month or two. (This is not my own design, it's Robin's, but I kinda like it for its harshness...)

But I'm just going to presume that Governments of the world felt bad that MiB already had lasers and I didn't :p so they gave us their designs

You mean you discovered hand-held lasers the normal way (Power Source Miniaturization) and then got the Ufopaedia articles and manufacturing options, right? Nothing weird happened? And if it did, what version were you playing?

All right! Thanks. I promise I won't plagiarize your code. I'll just stroll on in and see what's wrong with my own code and make it a little bit better.

No problem, do with this what you want, though if you use large portions of it please credit the author, be it myself or someone else.

I was thinking of making a HWP compilation that adds AutoShot to most tanks and combining most tanks that people have made into one mod pack - within reason and credits of course.

It's a good idea, I actually made something like this myself, but be warned that modding tanks is tricky. You have my permission to use my tank/turret sprites if you want, since I think it's pointless to do it again, unless you want some graphic files that I don't have. And if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask for help.

Offline XCOMFan419

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #319 on: July 25, 2014, 04:09:29 pm »
Sure, this can be done, but we need to decide: either this, or explosive rounds.

Unless the blast power is significantly decreased, to something like 30 (which is much more deadly than an AP round with strength 30, as explosives hit against under armour, which is usually puny).

What do you think?

I modified the Tank/Cannon in my most recent playthrough to where it auto-fired and it was still very underpowered compared to either the Tank/Artillery or the Tank/Rocket Launcher. Reducing blast power would probably be best in this situation.

I've been thinking about something like this, but I don't have a clear vision of how to balance it yet.
I'm not sure if I'd consider the Tank/Artillery OP or just fun in my most recent playthrough. I used it for long and close range, and it was effective. It was kinda like a buffer zone between Rocket and Cannon. But, if possible, making it inefficient at close range might be helpful. Since it is called Tank/Artillery after all.

It's not just recoil, it's a mechanical limitation of smoothly rotating the barrel in small increments - one of the biggest struggles of anti-air cannons today.

Again, very reasonable.

One per month should be enough, as long as you are adamant about it. Not having the Earth well covered is the easiest way to lose with the Men in Black on. Remember to watch the graphs for sudden UFO activity spikes - after all these years, graphs are finally useful! :) Do it especially when you are doing poorly points-wise, and you don't know why. If you find some consistent activity in an unsupervised region, it's almost for sure a MiB base which will ruin your game within a month or two. (This is not my own design, it's Robin's, but I kinda like it for its harshness...)

It's a really fun mod, it's a curveball thrown to XCOM. Managing their own traitors while fighting off an alien invasion. It's very harsh, but that's to be expected of another organization rivalling that of XCOM.

You mean you discovered hand-held lasers the normal way (Power Source Miniaturization) and then got the Ufopaedia articles and manufacturing options, right? Nothing weird happened? And if it did, what version were you playing?

It was meant as a joke  :P

No problem, do with this what you want, though if you use large portions of it please credit the author, be it myself or someone else.

Of course. Though this will take at least two weeks to look at the tank mods, make them balanced/usable and then make them into one big mod (Which will be my first to make public).

It's a good idea, I actually made something like this myself, but be warned that modding tanks is tricky. You have my permission to use my tank/turret sprites if you want, since I think it's pointless to do it again, unless you want some graphic files that I don't have. And if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask for help.

I'm planning on asking for help. I already have a handful of mods to convert to the mod pack. I just need to give it a name and configure it all in Notepad ++. Of course I'll probably make a handful of threads, or one thread, concerning the assistance I need. I will make a couple of tanks available from the start and then make more available as time progresses. I may take some influence from the HWP section of your mod pack, and even take some inspiration from most of the tanks you have in the mod (I.E Hover/Rocket Launcher) and attempt to make it so every vehicle is still viable especially after you research hover tanks and hover/plasma. Probably by taking a chapter from your "book" so to speak and make hovers have more armor, but no auto.

While this is all off topic, I appreciate your help. I was thinking of starting in a couple hours. Start a thread probably an hour after that due to the help I would need  :P

Offline Hobbes

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #320 on: July 25, 2014, 06:11:35 pm »
Is there a diagram that shows the changes on the tech tree brought by this mod?

Offline the_third_curry

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #321 on: July 25, 2014, 06:43:47 pm »
Honestly, I've never used the Tank/Cannon in the vanilla game.

I modified the Tank/Cannon in my most recent playthrough to where it auto-fired and it was still very underpowered compared to either the Tank/Artillery or the Tank/Rocket Launcher.

Maybe the Tank/Cannon could get a burst-fire where it shoots 5 times.

Offline guille1434

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #322 on: July 25, 2014, 07:47:51 pm »
About tanks.... This is a question for the more (than me) knowledgeable modders here: Would it be possible to mod a tank with TWO weapon systems (just like a soldier holding a weapon in each hand)? For example a tank with a large calibre cannon (with just aimed/snap fire capacity) AND a smaller caliber autocannon with auto fire and less powerful ammo. What do you think? Someone tested that concept? Thanks! (Or may be... Tanks!)  8)

By the way: I would like to give a million thanks to the author(s) of this super-mod, because is completely fantastic, and also is very alive and kicking with frequent updates! It rocks!!  ;D

Offline Recruit69

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #323 on: July 25, 2014, 10:20:06 pm »
*deletes all existing mods*
*downloads Final Mod Pack*

Giving it a go to see how it goes! Think I will struggle mostly with the revamped research tech tree, but I like a challenge!

Offline Recruit69

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #324 on: July 25, 2014, 10:36:06 pm »
Ok, straight in, you probably know about it....

Why is there a UFOpedia page showing Alien Containment, yet it is not available to build or research?

Do you have an up to date Research Tree diagram by any chance?

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #325 on: July 25, 2014, 11:19:01 pm »
Is there a diagram that shows the changes on the tech tree brought by this mod?

There were some, but at the moment I don't have anything remotely up to date, and I don't feel like spending hours on this today - sorry. :)

I'll ask Falko if he still has that diagram generator. If he doesn't, I'll probably force myself to do this. :)

Honestly, I've never used the Tank/Cannon in the vanilla game.

Maybe the Tank/Cannon could get a burst-fire where it shoots 5 times.

Yeah, maybe... Basically an Auto-Cannon with explosive rounds and higher rate of fire.

About tanks.... This is a question for the more (than me) knowledgeable modders here: Would it be possible to mod a tank with TWO weapon systems (just like a soldier holding a weapon in each hand)? For example a tank with a large calibre cannon (with just aimed/snap fire capacity) AND a smaller caliber autocannon with auto fire and less powerful ammo. What do you think? Someone tested that concept? Thanks! (Or may be... Tanks!)  8)

Sadly, it's not possible at this time. But I'm hoping for this too! :)

By the way: I would like to give a million thanks to the author(s) of this super-mod, because is completely fantastic, and also is very alive and kicking with frequent updates! It rocks!!  ;D

Hehe, thanks! I admit it's tremendously fun for me as well. :D The only problem is, any new stuff I'm making is somehow related to the FMP, which sometimes poses problems if I want to make some standalone mod... ;)

*deletes all existing mods*
*downloads Final Mod Pack*

Giving it a go to see how it goes! Think I will struggle mostly with the revamped research tech tree, but I like a challenge!

It's not as hard as it used to be... You can get lasers within a few months. They're not as good as the vanilla lasers, which come up much later, but they're comparable.

Nevertheless, this mod does make the game harder... Watch out for alien activity beyond your radars. :)

Ok, straight in, you probably know about it....

Why is there a UFOpedia page showing Alien Containment, yet it is not available to build or research?

Umm, yes you are right, I've never noticed this. It is a bug, will be fixed in the next release.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 11:21:07 pm by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Recruit69

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #326 on: July 25, 2014, 11:56:14 pm »
What about bugs that's a few months old which has been incorporated?

I.e. Medical First Aid.... says it costs 10 TUs to use it, but actually costs 20 TUs.
Learnt the hard way, failed to save my comrades in time....

Scout drone has a tiny picture in inventory when it is killed, taking up 1 slot rather than 6 slots.

Finally, I am using Tank/Cannon with this mod, but I certainly wasn't expecting this to be explosive, was this intentional?

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #327 on: July 26, 2014, 12:08:53 am »
What about bugs that's a few months old which has been incorporated?

I.e. Medical First Aid.... says it costs 10 TUs to use it, but actually costs 20 TUs.
Learnt the hard way, failed to save my comrades in time....

Okay, I'll modify the description. I never really read that wall of text. :P

Scout drone has a tiny picture in inventory when it is killed, taking up 1 slot rather than 6 slots.

Well, I will appreciate if someone makes a better bigob. :)

Finally, I am using Tank/Cannon with this mod, but I certainly wasn't expecting this to be explosive, was this intentional?

See posts on this page. :P

Offline Recruit69

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #328 on: July 26, 2014, 12:28:08 am »
Ah yes sorry I see the discussion about explosive cannons! Think I prefer nnonexplosivies! Also, when the drone is destroyed, a message comes up saying "scout has been killed " which isn't normal for a tank...

Offline guille1434

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #329 on: July 26, 2014, 12:58:57 am »
Solarius: Thanks for your answers! I also hope the possibility of making two weapon tanks be enabled sometime in the future...
You are THE MAN! Thanks again for your excellent and undoubtely hard job! I am slowly making an "Add-on" mod for the FMP adding some little things I would like to give my X-Com Special Forces!!  8)