[COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)

[Meridian]

Yes, it should work fine... I get no crashes.

[DkMirage]

Thanks for the fast reply. I downloaded everything a second time, did a new install and it now works. To the best of my knowledge, somehow one or more files must have turned up corrupted during my first try. Sorry for the inconvenience.

On another note: my attack dog knows how to fire a gun?!  Not really a problem, of course. Guess this isn't worth to fix since that would  require a special "dog unit" soldier type? Just asking out of interest.
   

[Meridian]

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[DkMirage]

Ok. Didn't know that (from the sprite I assumed it to be just an ordinary dog).   :-)

[hairybert]

I just gained rail weapons and nuclear laser weapons at the same time. I'm quite disappointed by the nuclear lasers, for example power 85 of the nuclear heavy laser is only a small improvement over the (already fairly disappointing) power 75 of the standard heavy laser. I expected at least power 100, maybe 120 like the improved heavy laser in XComUtil.

OTOH, rail weapons feel so much overpowered. Heavy rail with power 150 regularly destroys outer ufo walls, something which has been preserved to more cumbersome weapons like fusion torch or fusion ball launcher so far. (Side note: Actually, this is not purely beneficial. I lost an experienced soldier in a reaction training ambush at an outer ufo door when the aliens started shooting through a hole created by the reaction fire of a heavy railgun, instead of coming out through the door.)

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any reason why I should produce only a single nuclear laser weapon instead of rail. They are less precise and much less powerful. They don't need clips, ok, but with the high capacity clips of the rail weapons, that's marginal. Also, the fact that some particularly nasty opponents (read: sectopods) are vulnerable to laser damage doesn't make much of a difference in the view of power 85 (heavy nuclear laser) vs. power 150 (heavy railgun).

So far, this doesn't feel balanced at all to me. I know that you guys put a lot of effort in balancing things, so let me ask: What is the motivation behind the choice of the stats of rail weapons and nuclear laser weapons?

[Solarius Scorch]

Railguns aren't balanced against nuclear lasers, but against plasma. They are simply a higher tier, even if you got them at the same time in this campaign.
Laser weapons (both tiers) are balanced against Gauss weapons.

[Word on the Wind]

Also the Heavy Rail weighs 24 vs the... 7? of the Laser Rifle. Only a couple soldiers can use the damn thing without tanking their TUs until they've seen some action. It's also worth noting that AP is the most resisted damage type in the game. They do have downsides.

[hairybert]

Also the Heavy Rail weighs 24 vs the... 7? of the Laser Rifle. Only a couple soldiers can use the damn thing without tanking their TUs until they've seen some action.

You should compare same weapon types, of course.

Rail Rifle:
weight: 11
damage: 100 AP
aimed: accuracy 110 / TU 80%
snap: accuracy 70 / TU 35%
auto: accuracy 36 / TU 47%

Nuclear Laser Rifle:
weight: 8
damage: 60 laser
aimed: accuracy 100 / TU 50%
snap: accuracy 65 / TU 25%
auto: accuracy 46 / TU 34%

Heavy railgun:
weight: 20
damage: 150 AP
aimed: accuracy 100 / TU 70%
snap: accuracy 60 / TU 35%
auto: accuracy 36 / TU 55%

Heavy nuclear laser:
weight: 18
damage: 85 laser
aimed: accuracy 84 / TU 75%
snap: accuracy 50 / TU 33%
auto: ---

Comparing heavy railgun vs. heavy nuclear laser, I cannot imagine any situation where I would pick the laser. The heavy nuclear laser is a big disappointment, really.

Rail rifle vs. nuclear laser rifle looks a bit better, as the laser rifle is significantly faster, which might make it the better choice for assault soldiers attacking light armored enemies. The damage disadvantage is still severe, though.

It's also worth noting that AP is the most resisted damage type in the game. They do have downsides.

That's true, but as I wrote that doesn't make up for the huge damage difference. 100 AP vs. 60 laser for the rifles, and 150 AP vs. 85 laser for the heavy guns.

[hairybert]

Railguns aren't balanced against nuclear lasers, but against plasma. They are simply a higher tier, even if you got them at the same time in this campaign.
Laser weapons (both tiers) are balanced against Gauss weapons.

This comes as a surprise to me. Railguns and nuclear laser weapons really felt like the same tier to me (the same for Gauss and basic laser weapons). I just checked research_FMP.rul. Maybe I missed something, but isn't the essential prerequisite over Gauss / basic laser weapons the antimatter containment tech in both cases?
So you will get railguns and nuclear lasers at the same time in practically all games.

Also, I think for overall balancedness / diversity it would be nice if nuclear laser weapons were considered top tier together with rail and plasma weapons, such that they are the best choice among these weapon classes at least in a few situations like fighting sectopods (like it was in the original game, but isn't true any more due to the presence of the 150 AP heavy railgun).

Only by now I noticed that the nuclear laser weapons are exactly the same as the laser weapons of the original game, and the basic (_MIB) laser weapons are a weaker version.
What about making the original laser weapons the basic version (but with clips), and having a nuclear version with better stats?

For the original game, there was the fairly widespread consensus that the heavy laser is underpowered from a balancing point of view. For example, that resulted in an option to improve the stats of the heavy laser in XComUtil (which might have been be a bit over the top though with power 120). The above suggestion (nuclear lasers as an improved version of the original laser weapons) would provide an elegant way to introduce a more balanced heavy laser, without modifying the stats of the original weapons.

[Solarius Scorch]

I don't really want to change the research tree by this point, but you intrigued me with these nuclear lasers (I really should just call them blasters like in X-Com Files).
Since you seem to be pretty good with the tree, what would you suggest as prerequisites for these advanced lasers?

[hairybert]

For nuclear lasers (and maybe also basic lasers), why not bring the MiB into play? Aliens gave the laser technology to them. So interrogating a high rank MiB would make a good prerequisite, or maybe some MiB data slate could be introduced.

Thinking again about my disappointment with the nuclear lasers:
I think I would already be satisfied with the following change: Change the stats of the basic heavy laser to the stats of the current nuclear heavy laser (that is the heavy laser from the original game). That would also fit the image. And improve the stats of the heavy nuclear laser to power 100 or 110 and faster operation, such that it compares vs. the heavy railgun similarly as the nuclear laser rifle compares vs. the rail rifle.

[Solarius Scorch]

For nuclear lasers (and maybe also basic lasers), why not bring the MiB into play? Aliens gave the laser technology to them. So interrogating a high rank MiB would make a good prerequisite, or maybe some MiB data slate could be introduced.

Thinking again about my disappointment with the nuclear lasers:
I think I would already be satisfied with the following change: Change the stats of the basic heavy laser to the stats of the current nuclear heavy laser (that is the heavy laser from the original game). That would also fit the image. And improve the stats of the heavy nuclear laser to power 100 or 110 and faster operation, such that it compares vs. the heavy railgun similarly as the nuclear laser rifle compares vs. the rail rifle.

And this is the kind of suggestions I like: to the point!

I can modify the heavy lasers as you suggested, no problem... But I am not sure if this would really solve the nuclear lasers problem. It looks like a solution for a different kind of problem, namely "heavy lasers suck" (I assume). So I'm not sure if I should treat it independently, or would it actually be enough to make nuclear lasers useful?

As for the MiB, aren't they too easily found/captured to make a difference?

[hairybert]

And this is the kind of suggestions I like: to the point!

Thank you!

There have emerged different aspects in this discussion.

(1) "Heavy lasers suck"
True, many think that the heavy laser from the original game is disappointingly underpowered. FMP gives us the chance to correct that. And there is even a way to do this without violating the principle of FMP of not changing the stats of the original items! Just put the original heavy laser into the lower tier family of laser weapons, while taking the original laser pistol and rifle to the higher tier family of nuclear lasers.
The fact that the images of the original lasers are already assigned in this way might be seen as an omen that this really is the way to go!

(2) "The nuclear lasers problem"
I'm not sure what you mean here. I guess it is the discussion if nuclear lasers should be considered top tier together with rail and plasma? In my opinion, they should. To give more variety to the game. And to resemble the original game, where lasers have been the first choice among the gun-type weapons in a few (but critical) situations like fighting sectopods.

I can modify the heavy lasers as you suggested [...] would it actually be enough to make nuclear lasers useful?

Good question. Maybe yes, if simultaneously the power of the rail weapons is reduced a bit. Power 125 should be enough for the heavy railgun, and would also prevent it from destroying outer ufo walls. That should really be preserved to weapons like fusion torch or fusion ball launcher.

(3) Currently, rail weapons and nuclear lasers will show up at the same time.
Due to their dependence on the same key tech (antimatter containment). I really like the idea of bringing the MiB into play. MiB missions are super nasty and currently, the reward is thin. I usually cancel those missions, not worth the hassle. But things would definitely change when basic and nuclear laser weapons are added to the jackpot.

Basic laser weapons could (additionally) depend on interrogating an MiB-enineer, and nuclear laser weapons on an MiB-commander. Or add some data medium object to the Hybrid-MIB-Meeting mission (containing secret blueprints on nuclear laser weapons the hybrids give to the MiB) and make the advanced laser weapons dependent on that instead.

As for the MiB, aren't they too easily found/captured to make a difference?

The basic laser weapons shouldn't be too hard to get IMO. We could assign more techs to the MIB-engineers (early things like multi-launcher, tactical sniper rifle, explosive ammo, incendiary ammo, heavy cannon, auto cannon), to make it more unlikely that they talk about the laser weapons.

Nuclear lasers will be much harder to get. Capturing a live commander is not so easy. And in the other variant (MiB-hybrid-meeting) the player has to be lucky enough that the mission is randomly generated at all. Maybe it would even make sense then to make this a guaranteed mission in some month.

[Solarius Scorch]

Sorry for the delay!

(1) "Heavy lasers suck"
True, many think that the heavy laser from the original game is disappointingly underpowered. FMP gives us the chance to correct that. And there is even a way to do this without violating the principle of FMP of not changing the stats of the original items! Just put the original heavy laser into the lower tier family of laser weapons, while taking the original laser pistol and rifle to the higher tier family of nuclear lasers.
The fact that the images of the original lasers are already assigned in this way might be seen as an omen that this really is the way to go!

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand... Is it about graphics, or items? Could you please write it in a way that even I can understand?

(2) "The nuclear lasers problem"
I'm not sure what you mean here. I guess it is the discussion if nuclear lasers should be considered top tier together with rail and plasma? In my opinion, they should. To give more variety to the game. And to resemble the original game, where lasers have been the first choice among the gun-type weapons in a few (but critical) situations like fighting sectopods.

Well, they are still useful after you get plasma.
But I might just rebel and increase lasers' accuracy across the board (like I did in X-Com Files). This would give them more of a niche. What do you think?

Good question. Maybe yes, if simultaneously the power of the rail weapons is reduced a bit. Power 125 should be enough for the heavy railgun, and would also prevent it from destroying outer ufo walls. That should really be preserved to weapons like fusion torch or fusion ball launcher.

Hmm, OK, it's an idea. But railguns are already at a disadvantage of dealing AP damage, which is generally not that great against high level enemies.

(3) Currently, rail weapons and nuclear lasers will show up at the same time.
Due to their dependence on the same key tech (antimatter containment). I really like the idea of bringing the MiB into play. MiB missions are super nasty and currently, the reward is thin. I usually cancel those missions, not worth the hassle. But things would definitely change when basic and nuclear laser weapons are added to the jackpot.

Basic laser weapons could (additionally) depend on interrogating an MiB-enineer, and nuclear laser weapons on an MiB-commander. Or add some data medium object to the Hybrid-MIB-Meeting mission (containing secret blueprints on nuclear laser weapons the hybrids give to the MiB) and make the advanced laser weapons dependent on that instead.

A bit situational... But I like the general direction.

The basic laser weapons shouldn't be too hard to get IMO. We could assign more techs to the MIB-engineers (early things like multi-launcher, tactical sniper rifle, explosive ammo, incendiary ammo, heavy cannon, auto cannon), to make it more unlikely that they talk about the laser weapons.

Nuclear lasers will be much harder to get. Capturing a live commander is not so easy. And in the other variant (MiB-hybrid-meeting) the player has to be lucky enough that the mission is randomly generated at all. Maybe it would even make sense then to make this a guaranteed mission in some month.

OK, I think I get the idea.
I am kinda shy about changinhg basic lasers' prerequisites to MiB, since it's so unlike X-Com... But I will consider this.

[captinjoehenry]

I saw in an older play through of this mod pack people had multi blaster launchers.  How do I get them as I cannot figure it out from looking at the rulesets.