Author Topic: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)  (Read 536458 times)

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #570 on: August 26, 2014, 03:39:29 pm »
This approach calls for a Commissar armor: boosts Bravery big time (cool hats and coats fill you with self-confidence!) so the elites wearing it don't give a damn about the rookies dying by the score :)

Offline XCOMFan419

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #571 on: August 26, 2014, 03:43:58 pm »
Ruthless, all of you. Some of us like to play conservative and make sure at least half of the guys we send out on missions make it to see the end of the First Alien War :P

But really. That's why I use armour mods that let my soldiers survive early game. Kinda pains me whenever a soldier dies.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 03:48:02 pm by XCOMFan419 »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #572 on: August 26, 2014, 03:50:07 pm »
Everyone has their own methods, I don't like losing rookies either. But even if I rarely lose people in the field, there are 2 things...
1. Skyranger is a damned deathtrap, even with OXCom cheating in player's favor (aliens do not use area effect weapons during the first turns);
2. UFO breaching is ALWAYS risky, no matter how good your preparation is. Unless of course you click 20 turns away and never enter the UFO, which is kinda... abusive.

Offline MeatLoaf

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #573 on: August 26, 2014, 05:14:48 pm »
Ruthless, all of you.

:)


Gotta tell you, I hate it when people die. The thing is though, I know whats coming. Early game I prioritise those who'll be able to take the cyberdiscs I know to be coming. Once I get the psy labs I dance Gangam style, and protect those who can withstand the etherals. Your troops can be assets or they are liabilities, troopers will die so which do you protect?

PS yeah I know I could pre-screen assets from liabilities, but someone will die...

Offline SIMON

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #574 on: August 26, 2014, 06:58:33 pm »
Yep that did the trick version 0.9.2. By the way I think Ironfist is brilliant as u have a chance to catch Supply ships now without blowing them to bits and losing all the E115. What's in the future versions of the Final Mod pack or is it wait and see?

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #575 on: August 26, 2014, 07:41:27 pm »
Mostly wait and see, but my main focus is likely to be on armours now. Related to this, perhaps a line of really heavy guns that can only reasonably be carried if you're using armours with weight capacity bonus. The rest depends on many factors, mostly what mods come up. :)

Offline Recruit69

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #576 on: August 26, 2014, 07:43:08 pm »
Solar, should Alloy Skyranger be sold at a NIL price, given that it is a rental item at a reduced price if we build it for the owner?

Offline XCOMFan419

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #577 on: August 26, 2014, 08:36:22 pm »
Mostly wait and see, but my main focus is likely to be on armours now. Related to this, perhaps a line of really heavy guns that can only reasonably be carried if you're using armours with weight capacity bonus. The rest depends on many factors, mostly what mods come up. :)
That doesn't rightly make sense to me. If you are talking juggernaut armour or something to protect your soldiers from early game plasma pistols and explosions, why would the weight capacity of the armour help them hold a big gun? I would imagine that it would do quite the opposite, weighing them down severely if they weren't slow enough holding a rifle and a grenade with four strength units left.

If you are talking ExoSuits, those carry themselves and increase everything that the soldier does. Really expensive and experimental, but again they carry themselves. A soldier wearing an exosuit did standard exercises until he was bored

Also, I don't see why a tactical vest should weigh you down almost as much as a rifle.

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #578 on: August 26, 2014, 10:03:44 pm »
Solar, should Alloy Skyranger be sold at a NIL price, given that it is a rental item at a reduced price if we build it for the owner?

Well, it was how the original mod worked, and I did nothing to change it. It's basically an issue with license - X-Com doesn't have one to produce and sell Skyrangers, it may only convert it to its own purposes.

That doesn't rightly make sense to me. If you are talking juggernaut armour or something to protect your soldiers from early game plasma pistols and explosions, why would the weight capacity of the armour help them hold a big gun?

Ever heard of Power Suits?

Also, I don't see why a tactical vest should weigh you down almost as much as a rifle.

I agree, it should weigh you down way more, but I didn't want to be unreasonable.

Offline XCOMFan419

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #579 on: August 26, 2014, 10:20:39 pm »
Ever heard of Power Suits?
Why yes I have. I thought you were assuming that early game armours would have this bonus for some reason.

I agree, it should weigh you down way more, but I didn't want to be unreasonable.
By technicality, the armour should weigh less since it is being supported by your lower torso, much more sturdy than your hands. And besides, typical kevlar vests worn by the military weigh roughly 6.5 pounds, while a rifle weighs in at 7.5 pounds with 30 rounds and a magazine. Something heavier like DragonSkin weighs in at about 10 pounds. Various different bomb protection suits come in at different weights, but are typically 15-20 pounds. Most tactical vests, which have pockets in them usually (might come in as a handy feature) take the weight off the shoulders and move it to the lower torso, making the vest a little lighter on the soldier.

TL;DR typical armoured vests weigh less than a carbine/assault rifle and because of where the weight is put on the soldier, weighs a lot less than it should.  Meaning that to be realistic, the weight of the armour should weigh less than what is currently is in FMP.

Take that for realism.

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #580 on: August 26, 2014, 10:31:57 pm »
Why yes I have. I thought you were assuming that early game armours would have this bonus for some reason.

Lol no :D

By technicality, the armour should weigh less since it is being supported by your lower torso, much more sturdy than your hands.

True, but:

And besides, typical kevlar vests worn by the military weigh roughly 6.5 pounds, while a rifle weighs in at 7.5 pounds with 30 rounds and a magazine. Something heavier like DragonSkin weighs in at about 10 pounds. Various different bomb protection suits come in at different weights, but are typically 15-20 pounds. Most tactical vests, which have pockets in them usually (might come in as a handy feature) take the weight off the shoulders and move it to the lower torso, making the vest a little lighter on the soldier.

The weighs you're giving (as far as I can understand ancient units of measurement) are for relatively light tactical suits, basically what is built in the X-Com uniform (after all it does have some armour value). Remember it's 1999, not 2014. The combat armour is something heavier, to be used against aliens... Oh you know, this is sci-fi.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #581 on: August 26, 2014, 10:54:48 pm »
I don't know where you're taking your numbers from, XCOMFan419, but the MTV body armor currently being deployed with US Marines weighs 30 pounds, and the old and tested Interceptor vest (IBA) - 27 pounds. And that's even without helmet.

Offline guille1434

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #582 on: August 26, 2014, 11:21:41 pm »
Hello: Another small bug report, the newly incorporated Laser Shotgun, is visibible in the Ufopedia before it being researched... I think it is a problem of the requisites in the ufopaedia entry...

Offline XCOMFan419

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #583 on: August 26, 2014, 11:39:44 pm »
The weighs you're giving (as far as I can understand ancient units of measurement) are for relatively light tactical suits, basically what is built in the X-Com uniform (after all it does have some armour value). Remember it's 1999, not 2014. The combat armour is something heavier, to be used against aliens... Oh you know, this is sci-fi.

(For future reference: The American M4 Carbine weighs 6.36 lb (2.88 kg) empty, 7.5 lb (3.4 kg) with 30 rounds. Meaning that the Xcom Rifle weighs roughly the same with a larger bullet size but decreased magazine size.)

Okay, let me pull up the facts again.

Improved Outer Tactical Vest used by the American Military, (IOTV) medium size (complete with all components and pockets filled) weighs in at 13.9kg, or around 30 pounds. But this includes - but is not subjected to - 3 magazines for a rifle, a grenade, first aid bandages, food, broken down MREs, notebook, pens, maps, radio batteries, (for company mortar 60mm guns) a 60mm mortar round, a belt of 100rds of 7.62mm for the M240B machine guns, more ammo, 2 x 1qt canteens (can't always trust a Camelback), VS-17 marking panel, small squad handheld radio, flex cuffs, candy, a book to read, more ammo in mags, weapons cleaning kit, phrase book of the local language, compass, GPS and some other luxuries such as an ice pack or a candy bar. Reminder, this is ALL in the tactical vest. Now taking most of this stuff out, the armour weighs about half of what it is. Again, taking in consideration that the weight is spread across the torso and limited on the shoulders, it should weigh a little bit less than half of that. BUT most Xcom operatives will not take anything but an extra magazine or a grenade into the fight, meaning that the IOTV weighs even more less than 30 pounds.
(Source: A US Army Vet, 82nd Airborne edit: made it sound like I was the army vet. I'm not, by the way.)
BUT IOTV was in service in 2006. The OTV weighs 3.6 kilograms more than the IOTV, and the OTV was in service since the late 1990's. Meaning that most tactical vests the Xcom Project would purchase would weigh roughly around 8 kilograms, or 17-18 pounds.



Typical Kevlar Vests used by Military and Police forces around the world (different from tactical vests. No pockets and less armour plating) are around 6-8 pounds (3.5 kilograms), while civilian ones weigh 10-15 pounds (5-6 kilograms)



Now Dragon Skin armour, in it's current state, has no pockets and protects against a Fragmentation Grenade at point blank range and from most infantry firearms. It weighs in at approximately 5.5 lb (2.5 kg) with level 3 protection. This is the current iteration of Dragon Skin armour, and includes no pockets but has it's armour plating. I am not sure if there is a level higher than the Level 3 protection that it is currently at.



Here, we have a full body suit, the Interceptor Body Armour. IOTV and OTV are apart of Interceptor Body Armour, but do not use the full set of Interceptor Body Armour. This includes protection on the arms, legs, better coverage of the torso and groin protection. Other packages include a neck piece and even a combat diaper to protect super sensitive areas. The arm and leg areas are considered Level 2 combat armour since they do not protect from .44 Magnum rounds, but this is a case of pure penetration power and not Directed Energy Weapons which mostly rely on equal amounts of Heat and Kinetic energy. Plasma weapons are no exception. While they might provide limited protection against plasma pistols, taking a hit and protecting the soldier from most of the damage, they will not protect against anything else. These neck, arm, leg, and groin add-on make the armour weigh in at 33.1 pounds, or 15 kilograms.



Lastly, the last body armour I am going to cover, is the PASGT, or Personal Armour System for Ground Troops. Not based entirely in america, this is the most likely armour the Xcom Project would buy. Designed in the mid 1970's the PASGT refers to the helmet and vest together. In the US army the PASGT was simply referred to as Kevlar, or even Flak Vest. Other applications include night vision goggles and a riot control visor for the helmet. Speaking of which, provides limited protection against rifle ammunition, according to informal tests. The US army used PASGT in the vest format, which weighs in at 16.5 pounds or 7.4 kilograms. Overvest variants of PASGT nearly doubles this weight, at 25 pounds and 11.3 kilograms, but overvest was considered too bulky and most preferred to use one vest.



So what does all of this mean?

Remember how I said the rifle, when filled, weighs around 7.5 kilograms?

Well let's translate that. The Xcom Rifle weighs roughly around 9-11 strength points, when filled with ammunition. Considering weight distribution techniques and the LACK of equipment that Xcom Operatives/Agents/Soldiers receive, it roughly translates into anywhere from 3-7 strength points for armours. 7 for armour like Interceptor Body Armour, which is full coverage, and Overvest PASGT. In the middle are armours like Dragon Skin torso armour and OTV. Lastly we have basic Kevlar armour, which should weigh near to nothing, something like 2-4.

Again, all for the realism.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 12:16:39 am by XCOMFan419 »

Offline XCOMFan419

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #584 on: August 26, 2014, 11:40:46 pm »
I don't know where you're taking your numbers from, XCOMFan419, but the MTV body armor currently being deployed with US Marines weighs 30 pounds, and the old and tested Interceptor vest (IBA) - 27 pounds. And that's even without helmet.
I covered that in my newest post. Most of the weight is from the equipment carried into battle is from other equipment. See my post for answers.