Author Topic: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)  (Read 1643184 times)

Offline Helmet_Hair

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2310 on: August 04, 2016, 02:28:30 am »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2311 on: August 04, 2016, 06:35:04 pm »
How many files you have? When I delete some old from my page I managed to access it again.

OK, I'll experiment further.

Nice work man!

Thank you!

EDIT:

Nope, deleting several previous versions didn't help.

Offline princessleila

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2312 on: August 05, 2016, 05:08:19 am »
Hello, I noticed that shotgun with AP shells did not fire pellets, but only one bullet, with very high accuracy. I checked the rul file, and it seems that the "shotgunPellets: 7" line (seen in normal shells) is missing. Is it a bug or is it intended ?
Thank you!

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2313 on: August 05, 2016, 10:33:05 am »
Hello, I noticed that shotgun with AP shells did not fire pellets, but only one bullet, with very high accuracy. I checked the rul file, and it seems that the "shotgunPellets: 7" line (seen in normal shells) is missing. Is it a bug or is it intended ?

It is intended, because, well... it's an AP bullet. A breneka, I suppose.

Also the high accuracy is only at very close distances, you'll notice it drops fast with every tile.

Offline princessleila

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2314 on: August 05, 2016, 02:59:51 pm »
It is intended, because, well... it's an AP bullet. A breneka, I suppose.

Also the high accuracy is only at very close distances, you'll notice it drops fast with every tile.

Thank you for your answer.

I didn't noticed a strong accuracy drop with distance. My rookies where able to hit ~75% of the time with snap shots, even 10 tiles away, while with vanilla rifles they were able to hit only ~50% of the time, with aimed shots. Aren't accuracySnap=130 and accuracyAimed=175 too high compared to other weapons? Moreover, AP shotgun shells killed in 1 shot, while 2 or 3 shots were often needed with rifles. It feels that either they are overpowered, or vanilla rifles suck. I feel no reason to use them in the early game.

That said, I only played two missions so far, so I may be wrong... Also, it may be that smoke affect rifle accuracy much more than shotguns.

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2315 on: August 05, 2016, 03:15:46 pm »
Smoke doesn't drop accuracy at all, but you're correct in observing that shotgun slugs are pretty dang powerful at short and mid-ranges.  The rifles have two things still going for them - longer range and faster firing rate.  The range is obvious when trying to hit a scouted target beyond visual range, shotguns struggle to do that.  The lack of auto shot you'll notice if the AP slug rolls low damage and fails to kill at close range; your soldier probably won't survive the reaction fire.  Against low-armor targets, spreadshot and auto shot are less likely to fail to kill.

That being said, I love me some AP slugs, and like that they give me a strong option against all rifles, all the time, and shotguns are great for training firing for low-accuracy soldiers.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 03:20:13 pm by ohartenstein23 »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2316 on: August 05, 2016, 04:02:36 pm »
I didn't noticed a strong accuracy drop with distance. My rookies where able to hit ~75% of the time with snap shots, even 10 tiles away, while with vanilla rifles they were able to hit only ~50% of the time, with aimed shots. Aren't accuracySnap=130 and accuracyAimed=175 too high compared to other weapons? Moreover, AP shotgun shells killed in 1 shot, while 2 or 3 shots were often needed with rifles. It feels that either they are overpowered, or vanilla rifles suck. I feel no reason to use them in the early game.

Hmm, you may be right. The very fact that shotguns are more accurate at very short distances is as designed, but I may have gone a bit too far. I'll compare it with other mods and then decide.

That said, I only played two missions so far, so I may be wrong... Also, it may be that smoke affect rifle accuracy much more than shotguns.

Smoke doesn't affect accuracy, only spotting. (Yeah, this mechanics could use some more complexity.)

That being said, I love me some AP slugs, and like that they give me a strong option against all rifles, all the time, and shotguns are great for training firing for low-accuracy soldiers.

...Yeah, I really need to look at it more. :D

Pity that vanilla Openxcom doesn't support greater sight distances than 20. I've set it to 40 in X-Com Files, my mod which uses OpenXCom Extended +, and it was bullseye.


EDIT:
I've changed shotguns to be less accurate at medium distances. They're still very good at close combat. We'll see how it goes.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 05:51:27 pm by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Kjotleik

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2317 on: August 05, 2016, 09:17:14 pm »
I've changed shotguns to be less accurate at medium distances. They're still very good at close combat. We'll see how it goes.


Hm. In FMP 1.9.3a/b both snap and aimed shots have a max range of four (4) and a dropoff of four (4). I suspect you incresed the dropoff-value. How much?

This is only (maybe) a problem with the AP Shells (non-pellets), in my opinion. Even at max distance before dropoff pellet-rounds are not too reliable, since a lot of the pellets miss their targets. Standing next to, or maybe with one tile in-between you and the target, Shotguns with pellet-ammo are just awesome! But farther than four tiles away I'm actually preferring the Assault Rifle with auto-shots (4 bullets) instead.

Shotgun AP Shells is more a competitor to the Auto-Cannon, in my opinion (40, 50 with AA, power vs AC's 44). And the only reasons for using Shotguns with AP Shells instead of the latter is if your soldiers are too weak to carry it, if you're facing very early (before AC is available) Snakemen (Shotgun 40 power > Rifle 30 power) or that you haven't researched it yet! The reason being the low range of the Shotguns.

Obviously, Grenades/HE solves everything... but that was not the topic here!


Sincerely
Kjotleik

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2318 on: August 05, 2016, 09:36:20 pm »
Hm. In FMP 1.9.3a/b both snap and aimed shots have a max range of four (4) and a dropoff of four (4). I suspect you incresed the dropoff-value. How much?

Code: [Select]
    accuracySnap: 135
    accuracyAimed: 155
    aimRange: 14
    snapRange: 8
    dropoff: 6

Like in Piratez.

This is only (maybe) a problem with the AP Shells (non-pellets), in my opinion. Even at max distance before dropoff pellet-rounds are not too reliable, since a lot of the pellets miss their targets. Standing next to, or maybe with one tile in-between you and the target, Shotguns with pellet-ammo are just awesome! But farther than four tiles away I'm actually preferring the Assault Rifle with auto-shots (4 bullets) instead.

Maybe, but it's stronger!

Shotgun AP Shells is more a competitor to the Auto-Cannon, in my opinion (40, 50 with AA, power vs AC's 44). And the only reasons for using Shotguns with AP Shells instead of the latter is if your soldiers are too weak to carry it, if you're facing very early (before AC is available) Snakemen (Shotgun 40 power > Rifle 30 power) or that you haven't researched it yet! The reason being the low range of the Shotguns.

Maybe. I don't really mind if shotguns become obsolete, since they're useful for a while.

Offline princessleila

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2319 on: August 05, 2016, 11:35:24 pm »
yeah, it's the combination of high accuracy and single projectile AP shells that may be overpowered. Please note that I am not requesting any changes, as I have very little experience with this mod. I just wanted to be informed about design choices.

Anyway, thanks for developing this mod and keeping this game alive. Great work.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2320 on: August 05, 2016, 11:41:57 pm »
At your service, Princess!

Offline Kjotleik

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2321 on: August 05, 2016, 11:50:04 pm »
Code: [Select]
    accuracySnap: 135
    accuracyAimed: 155
    aimRange: 14
    snapRange: 8
    dropoff: 6

Oh. I'm confused now. I thought I had the latest FMP 1.9.3b (from the link in your post). There both aimRange and aimSnap is four (4).
If this change is correct, you've increased the Shotgun's aimRange by 250% and snapRange by 100%.

Then my comments clearly are not valid for such a weapon, since I based it on the old stats for ranges. I hope you don't mind too much, but when this version reaches me, I'll reduce the ranges to half of what you have here. It's a Shotgun, after all, not a Heavy Cannon.

Sincerely
Kjotleik

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2322 on: August 06, 2016, 12:21:20 pm »
Oh. I'm confused now. I thought I had the latest FMP 1.9.3b (from the link in your post). There both aimRange and aimSnap is four (4).
If this change is correct, you've increased the Shotgun's aimRange by 250% and snapRange by 100%.

Yes. But the dropoff is 6 now. This makes a huge difference (hopefully).

Then my comments clearly are not valid for such a weapon, since I based it on the old stats for ranges. I hope you don't mind too much, but when this version reaches me, I'll reduce the ranges to half of what you have here. It's a Shotgun, after all, not a Heavy Cannon.

We'll see how it works.

Offline Starving Poet

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2323 on: August 06, 2016, 07:30:23 pm »
Woah - those values turned them from completely useless to a fantastic early game weapon.

Offline Yankes

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2324 on: August 07, 2016, 04:11:56 pm »
Nope, deleting several previous versions didn't help.
I delete around 1/3 of all my downloads, right now I have 46 files and previously I had around 80.
I could barely open my page and now its usually work with long loading but work (except when I try open your page then any page on portal work).