Author Topic: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)  (Read 1122580 times)

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 10466
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
    • Email
Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2040 on: December 27, 2015, 02:50:48 pm »
I reinstalled completely and I haven't had the problem again, although I'm not sure  why as everything is identical except for the save itself, since I started over. If it comes up again I'll get you a save.

OK, please let me know if the problem persists. Could be some corruption issue.

Now, let me announce that version 1.8 was released.

  • Added Commendations mod.
  • Fixed a derpy landing on Slums terrain.
  • Alien Habitat now sells for 280000 (was 100).
  • Added some cities and fixed Kuwait City location.
  • Auto Cannon Alloy Ammo is less powerful.
  • Fixed many minor errors in various rulesets.
  • Proximity Grenade requires Motion Scanner now.
  • Fixes to Hobbes' terrain, by Hobbes.

Offline Devon_v

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 122
    • View Profile
Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2041 on: December 28, 2015, 02:25:56 am »
Hello! I just started playing FMP a few days ago, and it is amazing. I've played around with OpenXcom before, but after Firaxicom, Long War, and Xenonauts, I was never able to get into another game of vanilla X-Com. All of these new options and rebalances are so fantastic, it's like playing for the first time again.

I'm going in blind, minus the readme warnings about game settings and the need for captures, and I've been very much enjoying myself, but I've hit one snag that I'm unsure about. Cyberdiscs. It makes sense to me that small arms just bounce off them now, but they can take a half dozen hits from alloy tactical rifles and shrug off grenades and even rockets. I have difficulty destroying even one in three turns, let alone dealing with the 4+ that show up. I'm wondering if I'm missing an obvious weakness (I've made no attempt to use fire, which has been my answer to Reapers and Spitters), or if early game Cyberdiscs are meant to be something you just get back on the Skyranger when you see them.

I was able to defend my base from a shockingly early assault (loved that) because I layed it out with defense in mind and had long corridors to just pound away at them turn after turn with everything I had, but the poor sight lines on the terror maps combined with their mobility makes them almost impossible to fight.

I do have TFTD's damage scaling enabled as I have never liked the idea that a weapon can strike an unarmored target to no effect, but would that be enough to throw things out of balance despite resulting in more consistent damage?

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5303
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
    • Email
Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2042 on: December 28, 2015, 03:01:18 am »
With TFTD damage rules, you can only kill them with rockets, HE packs, or fire (or stun rods). With normal damage rules, they should also eventually succumb to AC/HC AP ammo.

Offline Devon_v

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 122
    • View Profile
Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2043 on: December 28, 2015, 05:45:38 am »
With TFTD damage rules, you can only kill them with rockets, HE packs, or fire (or stun rods). With normal damage rules, they should also eventually succumb to AC/HC AP ammo.
Even reverting to UFO damage rules they absorb a staggering amount of fire now. It's taking the entire magazine of a multi-launcher to drop just one.


Two issues I've noted:
The commendation screen after battle is using the wrong palette, it's all pink and orange. It's working correctly everywhere else. I believe this is the 12/21 nightly.

I looked at the tech tree to try to explain where an issue seemed to be coming up with the alien laser rifle, but I notice that you can get the gun itself after an interrogation, but you cannot put the clip in it unless you interrogate an engineer. Was this supposed to gate manufacture behind an engineer interrogation? It seems odd that the gun is understood, but putting the clip it in is a mystery.

Offline NuclearStudent

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 72
    • View Profile
Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2044 on: December 28, 2015, 08:31:47 am »
Even reverting to UFO damage rules they absorb a staggering amount of fire now. It's taking the entire magazine of a multi-launcher to drop just one.

Have you tried spamming HE packs? If you weaken a cyberdisk with a rocket hit and then slam an HE pack down its throat, it's almost guaranteed to die.

(sometimes they don't though, but that's really bad luck)

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 10466
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
    • Email
Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2045 on: December 28, 2015, 01:35:41 pm »
Thanks for the kind words, Devon!

Actually, fire works pretty good against Cyberdiscs. I really recommend flamethrowers; aliens are apparently too advanced to think about protecting their tanks against something that primitive. :P Of course it doesn't mean they'll die easily, but at least they die reliably. Softening them up with rockets or HEs is advised.

(Note that I haven't changed anything about Cyberdiscs, you just don't have easy access to lasers like in vanilla.)

I looked at the tech tree to try to explain where an issue seemed to be coming up with the alien laser rifle, but I notice that you can get the gun itself after an interrogation, but you cannot put the clip in it unless you interrogate an engineer. Was this supposed to gate manufacture behind an engineer interrogation? It seems odd that the gun is understood, but putting the clip it in is a mystery.

Yeah, more or less. The rifle itself isn't based on any mysterious technology that would be impossible to decipher by X-Com engineers, but the clip uses Elerium and so requires Elerium tech. To be honest there were so many changes regarding lasers that I can't remember exactly how it works right now, but since you can't use plasmas without researching them first, it is logical to assume you can't use Elerium batteries either. But as I said, the gun itself has no special requirements (as opposed to plasma weapons, which require several techs from the field of theoretical physics, like anti-matter containment), so at least after research you can pick it up on the battlefield and use it... But I'll think about it again, maybe all these changes led to something illogical.

As for the Commendations, no idea what could be wrong; it's not related to the mod itself.

Offline trinibwoy

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 13
  • If It Moves, shoot it. If it doesnt move, shoot it
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2046 on: December 28, 2015, 01:50:10 pm »
Devon_v  I totally understand your frustration with Cyberdisks. Maybe its a FMP thing, maybe its an OpenXcom thing. They are early game DEMONS to deal with. I cringe in fear every time I get a Terror Mission with Sectoids.
This is not a complaint though.
I actually prefer the difficulty they present as it really adds to the early game the feeling of "Oh Crap! There's no way to stop these things without great sacrifice".
I know that my best and brightest soldiers may go home in body bags after a mission.
It makes the threat of the aliens sooo much bigger.

Whatever it is about them that makes fighting them so difficult, even with alloy weapons and early laser tech, DONT CHANGE IT! Its brutal but rewarding. And it forces different tactical thinking as I have to direct my soldiers to get within lobbing range to pepper every disk with rockets and HE packs.

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 10466
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
    • Email
Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2047 on: December 28, 2015, 02:36:01 pm »
It's all true. But I would also add that in the event that you can't win, there's no shame in packing up and leaving. You won't lose your campaign because of that, it's a normal thing to do. (Unless it's an assault on your base.)

Offline Devon_v

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 122
    • View Profile
Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2048 on: December 28, 2015, 10:14:25 pm »
Yeah, more or less. The rifle itself isn't based on any mysterious technology that would be impossible to decipher by X-Com engineers, but the clip uses Elerium and so requires Elerium tech. To be honest there were so many changes regarding lasers that I can't remember exactly how it works right now, but since you can't use plasmas without researching them first, it is logical to assume you can't use Elerium batteries either. But as I said, the gun itself has no special requirements (as opposed to plasma weapons, which require several techs from the field of theoretical physics, like anti-matter containment), so at least after research you can pick it up on the battlefield and use it... But I'll think about it again, maybe all these changes led to something illogical.

The specific issue is that I have recovered clips from the battlefield,  but I am not allowed to load them on the Skyranger because I don't know what they are. I can put the guns on, but they don't load themselves. I think the gun might need two ammo clips, the existing one, which would unlock with Alien Laser Rifle research but be unbuildable, and an identical "human" Alien Laser Rifle Clip which can be built after Engineer/Elerium to allow manufacturing.

I didn't try fire because I assumed it couldn't possibly work since every armored X-Com unit is immune. :)

Similarly I don't pack HE packs because I'm not used to anything needing that level of damage to bring down. I'm learning otherwise. :)

This extended time on chemical projectiles makss the game play so differently, I'm kinda shocked these are stock Cyberdiscs. Even Reapers are credible threats and they used to be jokes. I have abandomed two missions after 3+ Cyberdiscs attacked simultaneously.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 10:17:50 pm by Devon_v »

Offline Cristao

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
    • View Profile
Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2049 on: December 28, 2015, 11:36:11 pm »
Completed the mod on veteran. My most hated enemy - Sectopods. There was a mission where I ran out of incendiary grenades and hadnt discovered plasma or laser yet. That was tough. I had to abort the mission.

With a combination of the following, I was able to hold my own in the mission.

Flying Armor,
Alloy Sword,
Plasma Sword,
Alloy Shotgun,
Alien Grenade,
High Explosive
Stun Rod
Smoke Grenade
Normal Grenade
Rocket Launcher
Grenade Launcher

Once I discovered Psiamp though it was game over. Pure pwnage. GREAT MOD!!! I had no crashes and it was interesting getting the new races. I wish people would post their comments about the different enemies including those snail enemies.

« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 11:42:54 pm by Cristao »

Offline Cristao

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
    • View Profile
Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2050 on: December 28, 2015, 11:39:39 pm »
The specific issue is that I have recovered clips from the battlefield,  but I am not allowed to load them on the Skyranger because I don't know what they are. I can put the guns on, but they don't load themselves. I think the gun might need two ammo clips, the existing one, which would unlock with Alien Laser Rifle research but be unbuildable, and an identical "human" Alien Laser Rifle Clip which can be built after Engineer/Elerium to allow manufacturing.

I didn't try fire because I assumed it couldn't possibly work since every armored X-Com unit is immune. :)

Similarly I don't pack HE packs because I'm not used to anything needing that level of damage to bring down. I'm learning otherwise. :)

This extended time on chemical projectiles makss the game play so differently, I'm kinda shocked these are stock Cyberdiscs. Even Reapers are credible threats and they used to be jokes. I have abandomed two missions after 3+ Cyberdiscs attacked simultaneously.

Rocket Launchers and incendiary grenades from grenade launchers worked for me on veteran. Once I had super soldiers - even alloy/plasma swords worked. PS you think cyberdiscs are bad - RUN FROM ANY ETHEREAL TERROR MISSION!! SECTOPODS ARE HORRIBLE. EVEN THE ETHEREALS ARE TOUGH!!  >:( >:(

PS Dont use small rockets vs Cyberdiscs. Get the large or normal ones NOT the small ones!!
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 11:41:14 pm by Cristao »

niculinux

  • Guest
Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2051 on: December 29, 2015, 12:42:43 am »
Thanks Solarius for the update! Just some kind of suggestion, to better distinguish the FMP from other mods such as equal terms and similia: how about to split the starting weapons: the buyable onse and the advanced/researchebal ones?

I explain: now we have some real world alike stuff (ak47 and stubnose) and ontthe fancy generic (assault rifle, rifle) so my thought is: have some real ispired stuu directly buyable from the beginning, eg other than the aforementioned ak-47 at least 2-3 assault rifles - maybe the kappa weapons mod may be a good source since it's the only mod to feature "real guns" and moving the "vaanilla" rifle and the assault rifle, laong with the tactical tactcal sniper rifle and a second shotgun (to be named assault shotgun) in the manufacturable weapons unlockable when the "advanced firearms" topic is researched. Of course "xcom weapons" should be a bit powerful.

I hope i made myself clear, it's quite a nice distinction that may add some more challenge, maybe. this may be done with next future relase (1.9?) :) Cheers

Offline Devon_v

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 122
    • View Profile
Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2052 on: December 29, 2015, 03:05:33 am »
Rocket Launchers and incendiary grenades from grenade launchers worked for me on veteran. Once I had super soldiers - even alloy/plasma swords worked. PS you think cyberdiscs are bad - RUN FROM ANY ETHEREAL TERROR MISSION!! SECTOPODS ARE HORRIBLE. EVEN THE ETHEREALS ARE TOUGH!!  >:( >:(

PS Dont use small rockets vs Cyberdiscs. Get the large or normal ones NOT the small ones!!
Sectopods are always bad news. With the altered progression I'd expect to actually be using lasers at that point though which might help.

Throwing HE packs at them takes them down so fast it's kinda silly. I guess the other explosives were still hitting the front and side armor rather than the under armor. Makes a big difference. I now have a dedicated grenadier with the strength and accuracy to really sling that stuff.

I'm on veteran myself, it's been too long since I played plus the whole going in blind thing.


I haven't mentioned the content because I presume praise there should be directed to the original creators. The reimagined Spitters are indeed awesome, as is the appearance of the Arthropods making an actual link to Apocalypse outside of the vague suggestion that the psi-microbes were controlling the Ethereals.

Offline Devon_v

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 122
    • View Profile
Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2053 on: December 30, 2015, 05:41:57 am »
Gotta say, this game is real interesting when you can't find any alien engineers. My elite troops are Toxi-Suited commandos, armed with flame, shock, and blade. When heavy armor shows up, "Hurricane" deals with it by unleashing the madness that is eight high explosive packs on one human. Three tanks and "Radar"'s motion tracker help direct the assault while the colonel and commander hover over the battlefield armed with their tac50s.

It's not like I don't take prisoners. I have two containment units, and I still have to take the grunts out back and shoot them. The engineers just seem to like to hug the power source on the way down, or jump in front of reaction fire or something. :)

Offline Cristao

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
    • View Profile
Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #2054 on: December 30, 2015, 12:03:34 pm »
Sectopods are always bad news. With the altered progression I'd expect to actually be using lasers at that point though which might help.

Throwing HE packs at them takes them down so fast it's kinda silly. I guess the other explosives were still hitting the front and side armor rather than the under armor. Makes a big difference. I now have a dedicated grenadier with the strength and accuracy to really sling that stuff.

I'm on veteran myself, it's been too long since I played plus the whole going in blind thing.


I haven't mentioned the content because I presume praise there should be directed to the original creators. The reimagined Spitters are indeed awesome, as is the appearance of the Arthropods making an actual link to Apocalypse outside of the vague suggestion that the psi-microbes were controlling the Ethereals.

I must be unlucky. I threw so many HEs and nothing happened to the Sectopod. What I used was incendiary weapons - INC Grenades - everything to make the ish burn.