Author Topic: Men in Black | Cover Alien | Gazer Alien | WIP new thing  (Read 150374 times)

Offline civilian

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 154
    • View Profile
Re: Men in Black -RC 2.6 | Cover Alien 1.2
« Reply #165 on: May 04, 2014, 12:28:33 pm »
Impressive work! Gonna test this mod in my (soon to start) new campaign, my current one is 99% done (only need to go to Cydonia)  :) I have to admit I have used your MIB soldier graphics for a personal mod (I added the Thin Men Race to my game) so I have to remove those before I start again... ;D

Offline Avalanche

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 49
    • View Profile
Re: Men in Black -RC 2.6 | Cover Alien 1.2
« Reply #166 on: May 06, 2014, 12:20:23 am »
So, I'm having a kind of funny problem with your mod. My second month, I ran into a very large UFO which just sat on the ground forever. The first time I attacked it, I got a crash (don't remember if it was M_Vector or assertion failure) so I left it. I waited a while, tried it again, and it turned out to be an MiB site, which worked fine. Flash to the end of the month, I have a score of -5000. I just found out why today. Out in Hawaii, there are FOUR MiB ufos just chilling on the ground. Based on their numbers, there's at least one more hidden somewhere else that I haven't found yet. I might be able to salvage this month if I attack all of them (which is going to be painful), but it's going to be rough.

If we don't get notifications about these MiB crafts, the game's going to be pretty much unwinable.

Offline robin

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1162
  • ULTIMATE ROOKIE
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Men in Black -RC 2.6 | Cover Alien 1.2
« Reply #167 on: May 06, 2014, 12:41:36 am »
Thanks a lot for the feedback.

I'll answer more thoroughly tomorrow because now I have to do things.

Offline Iapetus

  • Squaddie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Men in Black -RC 2.6 | Cover Alien 1.2
« Reply #168 on: May 06, 2014, 02:57:49 am »
For me some but not all of the MiB crashed UFO sites, identified with hyper-wave decoder, crash the game (I've got a ton of mods so it could easily be related to that though it only happens with MiB missions.) it seems like it's maybe only happening with one type of mission but I've not had time to confirm that. Some of them do work as expected though.


Offline robin

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1162
  • ULTIMATE ROOKIE
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Men in Black -RC 2.6 | Cover Alien 1.2
« Reply #169 on: May 06, 2014, 12:05:12 pm »
Thanks.

About the crash.
We'd need the full error message, so we could check with one of the coders to get a clue of what's going wrong; best thing would be a screenshot of the error-message window, if there's any. I'm going to test a bit this evening, hoping to get it. I might be powerless against it, if I can't correct it through the ruleset; if that isn't possible the only thing remaining to do would be to disable the problematic thing altogether (AKA disabling the mission).
(I still suspect the game doesn't like a groundtimer higher than some unknown limit).

About the ufos chilling around.
I was aware of this problem, and that's why, while I believed the mod to be complete (couldn't predict the crash of course), I didn't post it as a "complete mod".
This issue won't ever go away, it's bound to the fact that I'm using ufos to mimic something that isn't a ufo; the goal is to strike a balance where while still happening, it doesn't ruin your score too much. In my internal version I've already made some changes, increasing the timer between ufo waves (one of the also spawned 2 ufos instead of one); I'll also lower the groundtimer for the base from 2 years to 1 year, but that's the minimum to make sense, it's a "base" afterall.
..OR there could be a way to selectively set the negative score for the mission and set it doesn't give any when left alone... but: you do the missions to not get scored negatively (and lose the game), if that doesn't happen then who cares!

The real problem is that these missions should be modified Alien Terror and Alien Base missions, giving the notification when they happen and everything else, but instead they're ufos. Until I can't make them int their proper form, they' won't work flawlessly.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 12:07:28 pm by robin »

Offline robin

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1162
  • ULTIMATE ROOKIE
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Men in Black -RC 2.7 | Cover Alien 1.2
« Reply #170 on: May 07, 2014, 03:02:35 am »
So I upped a new version. I tried to run a couple of quick campaigns and  I didn't get any crash.. but I didn't get any fixed ufos too (they're rarer now, MiB bases at least).
Changed some values here and there, but I didn't exactly fix anything as I didn't find anything "wrong". So I dunno.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 03:06:07 am by robin »

Offline robin

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1162
  • ULTIMATE ROOKIE
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Men in Black -??? 2.7 | Cover Alien 1.4
« Reply #171 on: May 07, 2014, 10:59:22 am »
Updated the Cover Alien mod too.
Version 1.2 was already complete, but the Waspite stats weren't as high as they should have been; now they're as skilled as Ethereals but more frail (little less health and half the armor), and they don't have psy powers (strong resistance to them though). Since their body is half plant I made them vulnerable to fire (poor fire, so useless, let's give it something more to do; the 200% damage might sound high, but since they're flying units they won't be walking around inside fires as much as land aliens).
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 11:06:35 am by robin »

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 10503
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
    • Email
Re: Men in Black -??? 2.7 | Cover Alien 1.4
« Reply #172 on: May 07, 2014, 01:05:54 pm »
Your deployments seem to lack this part:
Code: [Select]
    width: 50
    length: 50
    height: 4
Is it really unnecessary?

As for the Waspites, how about giving them high AP resistance too? Since they're plants and everything... :P

Offline civilian

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 154
    • View Profile
Re: Men in Black -??? 2.7 | Cover Alien 1.4
« Reply #173 on: May 07, 2014, 01:09:55 pm »
Started a new campaign with your MIB (version 2.6) mod. First thing to say: Impressive work with the units and maps!

There were some problems though:

First: I had 5(!) battleship landings in a row, once i finished one rural city map mission, the next BB appeared.
Second: Despite killing all aliens with no own casualties the score was highly negative due some of the civilians being killed. Maybe raise the score points for MIB units x2 or sth, right now it is impossible to get a positive score.
Third: Laser Weapons: It is perfectly possible now to get them all before you have researched them, not good. Why not remove the custom loadouts entirely (along with the AlienItemLevel list that conflicts with other mods, e.g. Alien Armoury mod))? Also: Some people (like me  ;D ) use the laser clip mod and thus your units start without ammo. Removing the loadouts would give the MIB units the alien weapons which would be perfectly fine imo. And it would be more compatible and stable.

Also: The sniper rifle and machine pistol: I think many (if not all) mod users already have those weapons installed, no need to add them.

The new big Rural City mapblock is very nicely done, but after playing 5 missions in a row on that terrain i can say: it needs more variety, please add some different layouts, maybe even only slightly edited versions of the original, doesn't matter.

Congrats on that certain terrain block, though, it somehow feels very believable and rural, good job!

Now however for a gamebreaker:

End of march my game ended because I had a negative score (without any visible reason) of -16636(!!!)  :(

The mod is very promising and the resources are very good, however it needs some small bugfixes and balance changes. Once that is done, this mod will rule the world!  :)

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 10503
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
    • Email
Re: Men in Black -??? 2.7 | Cover Alien 1.4
« Reply #174 on: May 07, 2014, 01:17:52 pm »
Third: Laser Weapons: It is perfectly possible now to get them all before you have researched them, not good. Why not remove the custom loadouts entirely (along with the AlienItemLevel list that conflicts with other mods, e.g. Alien Armoury mod))? Also: Some people (like me  ;D ) use the laser clip mod and thus your units start without ammo. Removing the loadouts would give the MIB units the alien weapons which would be perfectly fine imo. And it would be more compatible and stable.

The problem is, that would take away the most interesting feature of this mod (to me anyway), which is going against enemies with human weapons. This allows for completely different tactics and gives more use to X-Com armours below the Power Suit.

Also: The sniper rifle and machine pistol: I think many (if not all) mod users already have those weapons installed, no need to add them.

We can't assume that :) I use it, sure, but we can't break the mod for people who don't. I guess Robin could add in the readme that these mods are required, but as I understand, he made these weapons from scratch, so it's not the same content.
Once the Final Mod Pack is released, it'll be easier. :P

Offline civilian

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 154
    • View Profile
Re: Men in Black -??? 2.7 | Cover Alien 1.4
« Reply #175 on: May 07, 2014, 01:21:11 pm »
Ok I see your point with the human weaponry, I hadn't thought about that.  :)

Offline robin

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1162
  • ULTIMATE ROOKIE
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Men in Black -??? 2.7 | Cover Alien 1.4
« Reply #176 on: May 07, 2014, 02:40:12 pm »
Your deployments seem to lack this part:
Code: [Select]
    width: 50
    length: 50
    height: 4
Is it really unnecessary?

As for the Waspites, how about giving them high AP resistance too? Since they're plants and everything... :P
Wow totally missed that bit, I'm going to fix ASAP.

About the AP resistance, I won't add it. The reason is that a lot of aliens are resistant to AP (and AP weapons have low damage too), no need to add an extra one to the list.
(Besides you'll probably have laser weapons already when you start encountering them).


Started a new campaign with your MIB (version 2.6) mod. First thing to say: Impressive work with the units and maps!

There were some problems though:

First: I had 5(!) battleship landings in a row, once i finished one rural city map mission, the next BB appeared.
Second: Despite killing all aliens with no own casualties the score was highly negative due some of the civilians being killed. Maybe raise the score points for MIB units x2 or sth, right now it is impossible to get a positive score.
Third: Laser Weapons: It is perfectly possible now to get them all before you have researched them, not good. Why not remove the custom loadouts entirely (along with the AlienItemLevel list that conflicts with other mods, e.g. Alien Armoury mod))? Also: Some people (like me  ;D ) use the laser clip mod and thus your units start without ammo. Removing the loadouts would give the MIB units the alien weapons which would be perfectly fine imo. And it would be more compatible and stable.

Also: The sniper rifle and machine pistol: I think many (if not all) mod users already have those weapons installed, no need to add them.

The new big Rural City mapblock is very nicely done, but after playing 5 missions in a row on that terrain i can say: it needs more variety, please add some different layouts, maybe even only slightly edited versions of the original, doesn't matter.

Congrats on that certain terrain block, though, it somehow feels very believable and rural, good job!

Now however for a gamebreaker:

End of march my game ended because I had a negative score (without any visible reason) of -16636(!!!)  :(

The mod is very promising and the resources are very good, however it needs some small bugfixes and balance changes. Once that is done, this mod will rule the world!  :)
First of all: thanks.

I need some details about your battleship problem: do you mean a conventional battleship (with aliens) or a MiB mission (grounded ufo with "very large" size)? Because in the first case, my mod doesn't touch that. In the second case, the new 2.7 version should mitigate this behaviour (it may need further mitigation though!).

I'll look into scores, I admit I haven't checked them.

Loadouts: I want the MiB to use human weaponry at the start, so they'll stay (it's actually fun to have the conventional X-Com arsenal pointed at you for once, instead of the usual plasma). I don't see it being a problem that you get laser weaponry before researching it (you still get them very quickly). Maybe I'll tweak the itemleves to delay their appearance further.

My sniper rifle and machine pistol are made form scratch: bigobs, sprites, floorob, all new. If you use these mod, and you prefer the other version, you'll have to modify it yourself; sorry (I once had separated ruleset, but I merged them and I won't split them anymore).

Adding variations of the rural map is planned, but it's not a quick thing to do (copying the buildings around is fast and easy, remaking all the nodes and the routes is not), and I frankly prefer drawing sprites than mapping.

The super-negative score should be related to the excessive amount of MiB bases generated with the version 2.6. As I said above, 2.7 should mitigate this, but it may very well need further addressing.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 02:48:08 pm by robin »

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 10503
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
    • Email
Re: Men in Black -??? 2.7 | Cover Alien 1.4
« Reply #177 on: May 07, 2014, 05:15:05 pm »
Wow totally missed that bit, I'm going to fix ASAP.

AAAAARRRRGH and I already made the 4-level version to be used with Alien Armoury Expanded.

About the AP resistance, I won't add it. The reason is that a lot of aliens are resistant to AP

Fair point...

(and AP weapons have low damage too), no need to add an extra one to the list.

Not as much anymore, with my Gauss mod XD

The super-negative score should be related to the excessive amount of MiB bases generated with the version 2.6. As I said above, 2.7 should mitigate this, but it may very well need further addressing.

You can also just increase the number of MiB operatives in missions, to make more points available :P

Offline robin

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1162
  • ULTIMATE ROOKIE
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Men in Black -??? 2.7 | Cover Alien 1.4
« Reply #178 on: May 07, 2014, 05:35:57 pm »
AAAAARRRRGH and I already made the 4-level version to be used with Alien Armoury Expanded.

Fair point...

Not as much anymore, with my Gauss mod XD

You can also just increase the number of MiB operatives in missions, to make more points available :P
Sorry man, but the mod is actually still in development (there's also that crash that might still be there), so.. I suggest to wait before working on it because it can still change.

For the score what I'll do is to assign a recovery score to standard and laser weapons (they're score-less right now). I'll also slightly increase the score of the MiB units.
The amount of units deployed is already slightly higher (or at least on par) with alien deployments for same kind of mission, I think it's fine.

Offline Warboy1982

  • Administrator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Developer
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Men in Black -??? 2.7 | Cover Alien 1.4
« Reply #179 on: May 07, 2014, 08:02:54 pm »
those are some seriously sweet maps, i love the creativity that's going on in this thread.