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Author Topic: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^  (Read 44893 times)

Offline Mr. Quiet

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Re: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2014, 07:21:44 pm »
You send small groups of aliens into the planet Earth to go on scouting missions to prepare the way for more aliens to settle in. Being 10x more advanced than the humans, if any of these aliens were discovered and died in a fight, it would be a very sneaky move for these dead aliens to blow up immediately, leaving no evidence of alien existence on Earth, to prevent technology and information leaks for reverse engineering. The short of it is, compromising the whole invasion right from the get-go. Of course you'll find a way around that though. See what I mean??? I think this is what you guys are talking about, right?

I wish you guys gave us a percentage option for giving weapons a chance of blow up on the EU2012 self-destruct advanced option. 25%, 30%, 35%, and so on plzzz!!

Offline Fox105iwsp

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Re: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^
« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2014, 02:11:14 pm »
I read that. It's just a downright stupid option, in both games.

How would such a weapon simply disintegrate? And even if it did, it would still be recoverable easy enough for qualified engineers. Unless it crumbled to microscopic pieces, which seems unrealistic on so many levels. (Just think on how much energy would be emitted, especially if you decompose Elerium too.)

You've obviously never actually seen the plasma pistol break up when you kill a Sectoid in the remake, nor have you seen any Star Trek episodes with the Hand Phaser set on Overload or even consider how much energy is involve to fire a bolt of energy through the air without losing integrity.

         It's actually very easy to imagine a self destruct or even a malfunction, being the cause of an energy weapon to be destroyed. The present Ak-47s have already proven to be able to have catastrophic failures and explode by detonating the magazine, leaving only the barrel and the mangled rear half of the receiver, pistol grip, stock and deceased user.

         Also, you've never played the remake, or you would know that the plasma weapons there do not disintegrate, they leave 'Weapon fragments' which are in fact used to study weapon research, including the human laser technology. I will always remember this because I was always lacking 'Weapon fragments' for research, was too good at capturing the whole intact weapon and users.... >_<

So clearly, what you people want is exactly what is presented in the remake, but how will you go about it? >_< Even if we could program 'Weapon fragments' into the game, how will you calculate it?

A heavy plasma leaves 6 pieces, a rifle 4 and a pistol one or two, how work will it be to program how much each weapon will leave behind after their destruction? A cheap easy way will be to program a random number of fragments you will get at the end of each engagement, but it will be an inaccurate count if everyone is okay with that.

Also, how would research be affected, can it be programed such that a certain amount of fragments is required to research each subject like the Remake. I haven't tried messing with the research trees yet so I wouldn't know >_<

I suppose another cheap easy thing to do is to program the manufacturing of the laser weapons will require a certain amount of 'weapon fragments' for the pistol, rifle, and heavy laser. The cannon may require less because it's huge, maybe more human tech is in it than a compact handheld Laser. This idea will only work if the earlier idea of 'random fragments acquired' is implemented, otherwise there will be no other way to acquire weapon fragments.   

Seems like an awful amount of work, still, if you choose to spend your 'Weapons fragments' from early game encounters on Laser Research first, it will significantly delay plasma weapons reaching your men in the field.
 
Personally, why not just make laser weapons require alien alloys or something >_< why do you people want them to appear so late, things will really start to suck when snakemen onwards start to appear >_<

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^
« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2014, 04:02:53 pm »
You've obviously never actually seen the plasma pistol break up when you kill a Sectoid in the remake

You're obviously assuming things. :P I played it a little, and it was dumb. :P :P :P

nor have you seen any Star Trek episodes with the Hand Phaser set on Overload

Nope, you're right here. Still, phasers are proven to have many magical capabilities... :)

or even consider how much energy is involve to fire a bolt of energy through the air without losing integrity.

Well, you should consider the size of a crater that would be created if all this energy was actually used to "fragment" the weapon. :P

         It's actually very easy to imagine a self destruct or even a malfunction, being the cause of an energy weapon to be destroyed. The present Ak-47s have already proven to be able to have catastrophic failures and explode by detonating the magazine, leaving only the barrel and the mangled rear half of the receiver, pistol grip, stock and deceased user.

Sure, weapon explosions do happen. Still, my point is that it would be hard to imagine an accident that would leave too little material for your engineers to figure it out, despite having a consistent set of material from many missions. Unless there would be huge explosions consuming everything within many metres, but that's obviously not the case.

         Also, you've never played the remake, or you would know that the plasma weapons there do not disintegrate, they leave 'Weapon fragments' which are in fact used to study weapon research, including the human laser technology. I will always remember this because I was always lacking 'Weapon fragments' for research, was too good at capturing the whole intact weapon and users.... >_<

Yeah I know. And this was mind-bogglingly silly. My face still hurts from that.

I'm not here to argue, I just want to say this is one of the stupidest ideas I've seen in a serious game. This is so hard to justify that I do not want this feature even near my games, much less in it. We have an option for this, fine, leave it there for the players who enjoy it. But please don't use it as a base for other mechanics. Please.

Offline blackwolf

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Re: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2014, 01:23:18 pm »
I just want to say this is one of the stupidest ideas I've seen in a serious game.

INDEED,it was sooo tryhard...i mean...it was like:
how we can make the game "more longer" and harder????...i know!!...lets blow up the alien weapons!!
OH WE CAN INTO SUCH OF GENIOUSES!!!1!!1!1111! ;D ;D ;D (yeah...it sounds like an idea that came from a poland ball meme ._____.)
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 01:26:20 pm by blackwolf »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2014, 02:05:05 pm »
INDEED,it was sooo tryhard...i mean...it was like:
how we can make the game "more longer" and harder????...i know!!...lets blow up the alien weapons!!
OH WE CAN INTO SUCH OF GENIOUSES!!!1!!1!1111! ;D ;D ;D (yeah...it sounds like an idea that came from a poland ball meme ._____.)

 ;D

I want to make this comic now.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2014, 03:35:02 pm »
Ohh so alien plasma weapons have a device that desintegrates them when the user dies? How about when the user puts the weapon away to scratch his alien behind? :)

Also this would be great news. Why research alien weapons? Let's just research a remote device that triggers desintegration of all their weapons (killing the users in the process) then just pick up the pieces, munching on some peanuts :) It's even stupider than Star Trek's Master Code that allows to control a warship remotely...

Oh and I did play the remake and it was full of... whatcha call it... hurr durr.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 03:37:55 pm by Dioxine »

Offline Fox105iwsp

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Re: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2014, 05:52:22 pm »
Ohh so alien plasma weapons have a device that desintegrates them when the user dies? How about when the user puts the weapon away to scratch his alien behind? :)

Also this would be great news. Why research alien weapons? Let's just research a remote device that triggers desintegration of all their weapons (killing the users in the process) then just pick up the pieces, munching on some peanuts :) It's even stupider than Star Trek's Master Code that allows to control a warship remotely...

The idea must have been based on the remote EKG units we have to monitor critical patients (terminal >_< ) who want to move about. so if "the user puts the weapon away to scratch his alien behind" it will still register it's life readings and remain functional.

I could imagine that mad German Scientist woman looking at us funny when asked to research a method of remote detonating the alien weapons, she would probably execute a live alien in the torture chamber and walk away. (In other words, shoot them)
As for the Star Trek prefix code, some security is better than none >_<

Also, anyone notice the plasma pistols on Sectoids were really wrist blasters? Wish they would have kept the option to use it as a hard-point weapon for power & flight armors.

What I really hate about the remake is obvious, 4 to 6 freaking units in the ONLY god damn Skyranger from the ONE XCOM base on the whole fucking planet. There was no point of including dozens of soldiers from all over the world >_< there were numerous other problems (funding, weapon usage limitations, inventory and the super SectoPod which makes the Blaster Bomb useless)
But it was still better than UFO extraterrestrial >_< 

So just to be clear, I only dislike things are given the wrong account proudly >_< Also being forced to watched Michael Bay's Pearl Habor and George Lucas Red Tails int the same day can damage my tolerance significantly.

Still, I mean no offense to anyone, and I like thank everyone for their opinions ^_^ think of it as learning how people think and react to funny concepts and ideas.
As for my mod, currently dealing with the firearms aspect, hope to be done with the phase 1 by today, then everything can move up to phase2.


Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2014, 06:12:25 pm »
No offence taken, and I hope this goes the other way too! :) I enjoy brainstorming a lot.

As for the UFO: Extraterrestrials, have you tried playing it with UNIMOD (a major modification)? It makes the game actually fun! (And also a lot harder, especially Geoscape battles.) And it features original X-Com aliens.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^
« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2014, 06:55:00 pm »
You clearly don't understand, so let me put my thoughts in simpler but lengthier terms.

1. I was referring to the fact that Starfleet vessels have a critical weakness (which is the OPPOSITE of "some security"). In the form of a device/routine that allows to override ship's manual control remotely. I tend to think that's because the Starfleet command is more afraid of their own men than an enemy, but that's beside the point. You postulate the alien weapons to have an almost exact critical weakness - a device to trigger self-destruction. Such a device, no matter the lifesigns-monitoring method used, could and would be jammed/hacked remotely. ON THE BATTLEFIELD. If a scientist looked at me funny when I postulated to research a way to exploit enemy's weakness (and thus kill them more efficiently) I would f*cking sack her.

2. The reference to scratching one's behind was a METHAPHOR. To put it more plainly, walking around, worse, going to battle with your weapon sporting a self-destruct device is inviting an accident. A weapon rigged to explode on an elaborate dead's man switch can and will explode accidentally, sooner or later. And any elaborate device has high malfunction rates, because there are so many things that can cause malfunction.

3. Lastly... wouldn't just stunning an alien circumvent the whole elaborate security? Or would it be set on such hair-trigger alert than even stunning (or God knows what else) causes an explosion too?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 06:58:59 pm by Dioxine »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^
« Reply #54 on: April 18, 2014, 08:00:59 pm »
New weapon: Harmonic Wave Emitter

Code: [Select]
  - type: HARMONIC_WAVE_EMITTER
    size: 0.4
    costSell: 125000
    weight: 18
    bigSprite: 91
    floorSprite: 92
    handSprite: 68
    bulletSprite: 6
    fireSound: 39
    damageType: 10
    accuracyAimed: 100
    tuAimed: 90
    clipSize: -1
    battleType: 1
    twoHanded: true
    invWidth: 2
    invHeight: 3
    harmonicWave: 80
    maxRange: 30

When triggered on the battlefield, it rolls damage using (the special harmonicWave flag) against all items containing Elerium in range. If it successfully overrides their armour value, the weapon in question explodes with power of (basic weapon damage * rounds left) / 10.

This weapon is dangerous to X-Com equipment too; however, it enables you to use your plasma clips as alien grenades.

:P :P :P

niculinux

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Re: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^
« Reply #55 on: June 21, 2014, 07:24:17 pm »
Tryed, but hey that's a pletora of mods to activate:



may be more convenient grouped into a single ruleset file , but do not know if applicable by technical stuff or something?

Adn of course does not work under linux  ;D


« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 11:42:47 am by niculinux »

Offline phobos2077

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Re: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^
« Reply #56 on: June 22, 2014, 10:57:18 am »
I appreciate the idea of "filling the gaps" in armors between "no armor" and personal armor and between personal and power armor.

Personally, I would like to a have a simplified version (or two separate mods) that will ONLY add a single armor for a single purpose. I don't like mods that just add tons of items to the game just for the sake of visual diversity, rather than actual gameplay benefits. Maybe an optional ruleset with just a couple of different armors to fill the gaps and add new options in the battlefield (think personal armor with tactical visor - increase accuracy, exoskeleton armor - increase strength, etc.) - that would be cool.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^
« Reply #57 on: June 22, 2014, 02:11:42 pm »
I appreciate the idea of "filling the gaps" in armors between "no armor" and personal armor and between personal and power armor.

Personally, I would like to a have a simplified version (or two separate mods) that will ONLY add a single armor for a single purpose. I don't like mods that just add tons of items to the game just for the sake of visual diversity, rather than actual gameplay benefits. Maybe an optional ruleset with just a couple of different armors to fill the gaps and add new options in the battlefield (think personal armor with tactical visor - increase accuracy, exoskeleton armor - increase strength, etc.) - that would be cool.

So you propose, which I agree with, two possible directions for armour mods: filling the gaps in the "main branch" - which are armours that only give protection - and creating "side branches", which are armours with possibly less protection as compared with the main branch on a similar tech level, but with an added stat bonus.

Expanding the main branch is easier, there are mods which do so (though their quality varies). New branches are pretty much absent right now, except in Piratez. I hope this will be worked on in the future.

Offline AlienMuncher

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Re: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^
« Reply #58 on: June 25, 2014, 05:24:29 pm »
Personally I vote for "filling the gaps" route, as it seems to me that by additional training (received in Training Facility) and natural progression, additional stat boost by some kind of exoskeletons would lead to superhuman soldiers. I'd rather see this quality in some kind SuperAdvanced HWP (human driven even better, but I'm not sure if this is supported by the game engine)- being extremely costly but with excellent stats.

I guess it comes to ones particular gameplay style and affection for soldiers: tamagotchi vs cannon fodder, but I think there is something in the idea of humans being inferior to aliens...

I love though Raidau's version of psionics. In this regard psy-armour is cool idea, although personally I'd rather see this executed solely by modification of helmet part of the armour.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 05:27:29 pm by AlienMuncher »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [ARMOR] Improved Uniforms, Kevlars, Dragon Skin & Combat Armor ^_^
« Reply #59 on: June 25, 2014, 10:28:32 pm »
Personally I vote for "filling the gaps" route, as it seems to me that by additional training (received in Training Facility) and natural progression, additional stat boost by some kind of exoskeletons would lead to superhuman soldiers.

A valid concern. Still, I think it can be overcome with careful balance. After all, in many respects even endgame soldiers aren't overpowered, especially if you don't save scum.

And you know, aliens can be buffed too in many ways. :)