Range based accuracy for grenades?

[Ran]

With the current range based accuracy model, rookies have almost no chance to hit their target, however they can throw grenades half across the map and they will land right before the alien's feet.
Same of course for alien terrorists.
I think this seems a bit unfair as it gives grenades - especially the alien ones - far too much power. What do you think about limiting throwing range and accuracy?

[Solarius Scorch]

So range is irrelevant with grenades? Damn, I didn't know that.
Yes, this should be rectified, no questions asked.

[yrizoud]

they can throw grenades half across the map and they will land right before the alien's feet.

IMO, this is an exageration. A bad thrower will never land the right tile if he throws 10 tiles, but he's very likely to succeed if it's only 2 tiles.

[Align]

Regular grenades quickly become useless as aliens with tough skin show up, and there's no Elerium-free alternative (other than the rather heavy HE packs), so they seem alright.

[Ran]

I just extensively tested this with rookies and the results are pretty weird.
My worst throwers have an accuracy of 51 and they can throw +25 tiles without missing, they hit the target tile with 100% accuracy - always!
Weaker ones may have a limited range but they never miss, no matter how far I let them throw.
When using heavy- or auto-cannons at this range, the results are terrible even with aimed shots.
It wasn't like this in earlier builds, I think this is a bug.

About alien grenades - if you play at higher difficulties, more aliens carry grenades so you have a constant supply. Never had to manufacture an alien item in the entire playthrough.

[Warboy1982]

i'm almost of the opinion that this "range based accuracy" option should be removed to avoid confusion.
with this option disabled, range affects the accuracy of EVERYTHING, including throws.

[Ran]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'disabled'
When range based accuracy is set to 'true', shots fired take distance into account, which is a good idea.
When set to 'false'. distance does not matter.
Or am I wrong?

Regardless, throws always have 100% accuracy, try it out. You can't miss by throwing.
I used openxcom_git_master_2014_01_20_1603.zip - built 2014-01-20 15:06

[Warboy1982]

you are wrong. this is precisely the confusion i am talking about.
when set to false, it uses the vanilla formula, which DOES take range into account. for both shooting and throwing.
when set to true, it uses another formula which takes some other things into account.
the name of the option implies that by default, range has no bearing, this is NOT the case.

throws don't have 100% accuracy. i tried it out, i threw a heavy plasma 5 tiles and it ended up in the wrong one.

[Ran]

I see, thanks!
Is there any documentation which formula is used in which mode? Just curious...

About grenades - sorry but I made more than 100  test throws with grenades - both with range base accuracy on and off - and not a single one missed.
Feel free to enter the test range, see savegame below.

Also did the same with weapons in other savegames but I could not produce a miss.

[Warboy1982]

i managed to miss a throw within 12 attempts at a range of 9, with throwing accuracies as follows: 66 72 70 51 77 69 (two throws each)
i think you're just lucky.

[Ran]

Strange, maybe I have some setting you don't?

I let all soldiers throw the 80 grenades over max. range again, no miss.
Then I positioned my weakest two with both throwing acc. 51 opposite to each other and let them toss grenades between them across 21 tiles 50 times.
Again no miss.

All in all I must have thrown about 500 times until now without producing a single miss. This can't be luck.

[yrizoud]

Could you please post (attach or link) your settings file ? (options.cfg, if I remember correctly)

[Ran]

Seems fixed in the new build, thanks!