Author Topic: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)  (Read 132891 times)

Offline Nord

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1365 on: February 13, 2020, 09:11:14 pm »
Sonic oscillator actually doesn't consume any zrbite to fire at all. Don't tell Nord.
But why? it must consume... maybe you have other  mods activated?
Also dps must be larger (bigger?) than of gauss. I will change that, thanks.

Offline Amoebka

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1366 on: February 13, 2020, 09:19:16 pm »
Sonic oscillators use zrbite as ammo. Zrbite is unchanged from vanilla. Vanilla zrbite doesn't have clipSize specified. When clipSize isn't specified, it defaults to 0. When a weapon is reloaded with ammo that has clipSize 0 it reloads for free.

If sonic oscillators are supposed to use zrbite per shot literally nobody will ever use them. Zrbite is already too valuable.

Offline Nord

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1367 on: February 13, 2020, 09:45:46 pm »
oh, got it. So i want to fix zrvbite consumption AND rise oscillator's dps, so it will be powerful, but expensive weapon. Not just supergun as in vanilla, but supergun, firing gold rounds.

Offline Amoebka

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1368 on: February 13, 2020, 10:05:15 pm »
Meh, guess it's DUPs all the way from the first month to T'leth then.  :-\

Research is supposed to give you better tech, not infinite sidegrades and variants. If gauss cannons are still in use 2 years into the game, long after sonic is available, that's actually an indication that the balance is bad. Being too scared to make things overpowered leads to the opposite extreme where the tech tree is too flat and players don't feel like they make any progress. I feel like this is a general issue TWoTS has, not just with craft weapons.

It sucks quite a bit to have tons of new toys and then never use any of them because they are too situational or underpowered. It effectively wastes your own effort as the modmaker, too, because you spend time making content players won't see much. As a player, I really want to use all those cool looking new subs and guns and whatnot, but to do so I have to pretty much handicap myself. I can't recall how many times have I finished a new research, read the report and said: "Wow, this looks interesting. Guess I'll never use it because sonic rifle / ion armor / manta is better."

Your mod has the best content for TFTD of all mods, don't undersell it.  :P

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1369 on: February 13, 2020, 10:12:49 pm »
MELEE:

In my own modding experience I found that the easiest way to make melee weapons work was to make them fast, powerful, and accurate. I let the soldier's attributes (like strength, melee accuracy, reactions) add most or all of its damage, meaning it scales in power with game progression or just with how often you use the weapons (especially if the weapon trains the same attributes it uses). My rule of thumb is that a given melee weapon should do more damage than a ranged weapon at the same tech level, even though it costs less TUs to use. Also consider how often it should actually hit, and adjust its accuracy accordingly. Vanilla melee accuracy is 20-40, so a melee weapon with a 100% internal hit chance will still miss most of the time.


Your Gauss Cannon:
Range: 25
Damage: 90
Accuracy: 35
Reload: 20/16/12
Effective DPM vs small: 62.4/78.0/104.0
Effective DPM vs medium: 70.9/88.6/118.1
Effective DPM vs large: 88.6/110.7/147.7

Your Sonic Oscillator:
Range: 50
Damage: 110
Accuracy: 40
Reload: 24
Effective DPM vs small: 72.6
Effective DPM vs medium: 82.5
Effective DPM vs large: 103.1

Your alien sub hit points:
Very Small: 50/60/150/260/350
Small: 300/500/650
Medium: 550/650/750
Large: 1400/2000/4200

My conclusion: the sonic oscillator has potential merit by having more range. Even if no USOs have a weapon range within the margin, it can still likely down small subs faster than the gauss cannon merely because it begins firing sooner. But even against the beefier smalls, the sonic oscillator is still about the same power as the gauss cannon. Mediums have roughly the same toughness as smalls, but against larges the sonic oscillator will be weaker unless you mount several of them. Short of mounting it on a Leviathan (or maybe a Manta with good torpedoes), the range advantage isn't going to make much difference against something that beefy.

There are four ships that can notably be out-ranged by the sonic oscillator (but not the gauss cannon) (and I have no idea how often they show up): Cruiser, Hunter, Envoy, Mothership.

The DPM values I put above are based on assuming no pilots, and running the full set of equations to determine average sustained applied damage. None of the craft have built-in hit bonuses that I can find, nor do any USOs appear to have dodge bonuses. Therefore, the addition of pilots to grant hit bonuses should increase all the DPM numbers somewhat evenly, with some advantage given to lower hit chance weapons (like the Gauss Cannon) and against smaller USOs. Based on this info, I conclude that you should probably make the following change:

Sonic Oscillator Reload Time:
24 => 22 (if it's supposed to be marginally better than Gauss Cannon)
24 => 20 (if it's supposed to be significantly better than Gauss Cannon)
24 => 18 (if it's supposed to be way better than Gauss Cannon)
24 => 16 (if it's supposed to be a supergun)

As for the ammo, you should just create a manufacturing recipe that turns Zrbite into Sonic Oscillator ammo. Maybe 1 piece for 5/10/20/25 shots.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 09:35:31 am by The Reaver of Darkness »

Offline Unmadesoldier

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1370 on: February 18, 2020, 11:22:11 pm »
Gauss grenades and explosives?

They'd be more powerful than the magna blast grenade and explosive but cannot be purchased and must be manufactured they shouldnt require magnetic navigation to manufacture.

Could we also get a surface usable heavy laser?



Offline andrewgreve

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1371 on: February 22, 2020, 10:42:04 am »
alien ADS clip = 25 damage
regular ADS clip = 30 damage

ufopedia and stats for nerds reflect this.

I also had a shrimp drone survive being shot by alien ADS round today.