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Author Topic: How do we lose?  (Read 8858 times)

Offline Juju Dredd

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How do we lose?
« on: September 01, 2013, 02:54:41 am »
(I'm speaking about the vanilla game)

There is a thing that do not occur that often: losing.
In fact I have lost in only two ways:
- attacking Cydonia and retreating.
- two consecutive negative monthly financial deficits.
In fact I didn't really lost, my "retreat" from cydonia was because I wanted to restart the fight because of a misclick, and my financial lost was because of this bug.

Of course I'm not a superhero, but I have never continued a game when it was evident I was going to lose. So I don't know what are the loss possibilities. I presume losing all the bases in end game, but I don't know if there is a time limit (such as two or three years) or if losing two much countries due to alien infiltration is a direct cause to loss. Does anybody know?

And, is loss exactly the same in OpenXcom?

Offline SupSuper

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Re: How do we lose?
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2013, 05:46:22 am »
The OpenXcom conditions are the same as vanilla. You can lose if:
- Your last base gets destroyed by aliens (but you can safely destroy it yourself).
- You fail the Cydonia mission.
- You have a negative budget for two months.
- You have a negative score for two months.

The exact thresholds can vary, but that's the gist of it. Most are pretty hard to achieve, but an early base attack can easily catch you off-guard and ruin your game.

Offline Juju Dredd

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Re: How do we lose?
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2013, 11:23:45 am »
(...) but an early base attack can easily catch you off-guard and ruin your game.

Hm, now I'm not sure, perhaps this happened to me during my first "true" superhuman mission.

Edit: so, we can lose all investors and still play? This is amazing.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 12:13:54 pm by Juju Dredd »

Offline Danny

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Re: How do we lose?
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2013, 09:41:26 pm »
Why would you lose for retreating from Cydonia anyway?
Especially if you have many strong bases with strong intercepting craft? XD

Offline moriarty

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Re: How do we lose?
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2013, 10:14:47 pm »
Why would you lose for retreating from Cydonia anyway?
Especially if you have many strong bases with strong intercepting craft? XD

I guess attacking cydonia is a kind of surprise tactic - a single craft striking at the heart of the unsuspecting enemy. you can try it once, but never again. the aliens will realize how far you have come, attack in full strength, ramp up the defences at cydonia, and humanity will perish. simple as that :)

Offline SupSuper

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Re: How do we lose?
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2013, 10:25:01 pm »
And it increases the stakes, if you could just retry Cydonia over and over it wouldn't have the same feel. ;)

Offline KakiHasTheHybridChild

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Re: How do we lose?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2013, 12:18:38 pm »
I'm not sure if it was originally planned, but clever commanders go into arms dealing. With weapons/items requiring no special resources, you can manufacture them as long as you have the capital. My daughter is scribbling in my 'official strategy guide' by David Ellis as I type, and only god could pry it from her hands. he chooses not to, so I can't tell you what is most profitable right now.
The point is that, after a certain point in game time, X-COM becomes self-sufficient. Even if all countries pulled out, the only real impact is funding FROM NATIONS. Do you think I won't go into 'your' country to get that alien leader, just because you bent over? While the grunts are playing with you, WE are moving up THEIR rear. Stopped funding?!? OK. Sorry for the inconvenience, we will leave (and take this big black bag with us. YOU QUIT, not us.)  After some time, X-COM no longer needs the world's support. They just get on with the job.

The 'doom meter' is a way to end games artificially. Wars and fights don't end like that. One enemy of the aliens could still make a difference, even if they had only one grenade, and had gotten to Cydonia.

Offline KakiHasTheHybridChild

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Re: How do we lose?
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2013, 12:48:21 pm »
Finally god intervened and caused my child to notice my ASC box... while she is trying to reach it I quote from The Official Strategy Guide -
p15 - LOSING THE GAME
A number of conditions result in losing the game:
*If you stay in debt over $1 million for two cosecutive turns[... read months], the X-COM project is canceled and the game is over.
*If you have two consecutive "bad" months in terms of score, the X-COM project is canceled and the game is over. [..."bad" score varies by level....]
*If all X-Com bases are captured by aliens (if no X-COM bases remain in the game), the game is over.
*If you fail in your attempt to destroy the final alien base on Mars, the game is over.

[Chapter ends...] Nowhere does it say that because the Governments all caved in, you have to as well. Even nations who signed pacts will want wepons for 'insurance'.

And if you quit and start again when you 'might' lose, you aren't playing it X-COM style.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 12:50:51 pm by KakiHasTheHybridChild »

Offline Mr. Quiet

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Re: How do we lose?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2013, 07:32:05 am »
Woah, I've never had that happen to me, all nations leaving you and continuing your play-through :OOOO

To add more choices, when the Council tries to shut you down over having 2 bad consecutive months/going negative on funding, you have the choice to accept defeat or reject them and become your own power (IF you think you can self-sustain yourself). When you reject them, they will become your enemy and the council being part of the secret governments themselves, you will [once in awhile] be harassed by black suits and agents on your battlescape missions.

In this new mode, will also have the option to defend Terror-Sites or let them fend for themselves. Score no longer affects you.

The bases that were built before the Council left you will be attacked since they know of those bases. They will send the Special Forces in to go Black Mesa on you. They will only attack your bases when you reach a certain mid-high score meaning you might be ready for them. This will have a 2-part mission like TFTD, in a fun way I hope. 1st part is defending your underground base. 2nd part is clearing out the Forward Outpost base they built on the surface. Wipe them out! After they attack a base and fail, they may never try it again. 8) Luke 8), time to make military sprites for the surface mission 8)


All this over telling the Council the screw themselves, hehehehe. I can imagine the Council being like those cut throats in the X-Files. The Smoking man and his buddies controlling other parts of the world.


About selling your stuff when all Nations abandon you: When you sell, you sell to unknown buyers, probably illegal sales, black market sales. Dealing with rebel groups, mafias, ruthless dictators, secret cult organizations, secret government organizations, pretty much non-alien groups, because the nations will receive technology from the aliens directly. Those who don't, will come to us ;D


Pretty much this right here. Especially in bold.
Quote from: KakiHasTheHybridChild
I'm not sure if it was originally planned, but clever commanders go into arms dealing. With weapons/items requiring no special resources, you can manufacture them as long as you have the capital.
The point is that, after a certain point in game time, X-COM becomes self-sufficient. Even if all countries pulled out, the only real impact is funding FROM NATIONS. Do you think I won't go into 'your' country to get that alien leader, just because you bent over? While the grunts are playing with you, WE are moving up THEIR rear. Stopped funding?!? OK. Sorry for the inconvenience, we will leave (and take this big black bag with us. YOU QUIT, not us.)  After some time, X-COM no longer needs the world's support. They just get on with the job.

The 'doom meter' is a way to end games artificially. Wars and fights don't end like that. One enemy of the aliens could still make a difference, even if they had only one grenade, and had gotten to Cydonia.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 07:34:04 am by WeOwnTheNight »

Offline KakiHasTheHybridChild

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Re: How do we lose?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2013, 02:13:08 pm »
I now quote the quoter,

"In this new mode, will also have the option to defend Terror-Sites or let them fend for themselves. Score no longer affects you."

I would have said you have the option to harvest Terror-Sites.

I think the OP was about the game being too easy. I'm not sure if the Juju is save scamming or quits and restarts when the whole team dies, or is just a TACTICAL GENIUS. The game is blocky and pixelated, but when you get used to that it is the best game ever. You can use tactics to improve your chances of bring un-plasma-melted troops home. Ever try some of the old school challenges? I recommend the technophobe one - you hate the aliens so much that you refuse to use their technology. Research it, yes, but only so that you can get to Cydonia and end the war. Their filthy heavy plasmas can rot. 

Admittedly, the balance is out of whack (too hard early game, too easy late game... psionics, anyone?) but the 2012 XCOM is just the same. (as well as the name, thay have that in common too. just those two...) The 'challenges' were issued to add a new way of playing a very versatile game, which allowed you to skip this or that and still play. If you kill the alien brain with an X-COM standard weapon, having used only the start weapons throughout the entire playthrough, I whill give you the internet award.
(I once won the internet award for making a game with zombie koalas in it. They haven't expanded into the world yet, but wait and see... )

I go on and on, but I will say, once again, the gap between XCOM and X-COM is that X-COM allows you to PLAY IT YOUR WAY.