CF-105 ARROW vs Greater Manors

[norpan83]

It feels like the CF-105 ARROW is a bit weak, maybe it should be buffed a bit,
If you add a second cannon slot,
it would allow it to confidently attack the helicopters defending the greater manors.

This would give it some use in the Promotion 2 era,
if you have to wait until stingrays to use it, you are basically at MIG's anyway, so you don't need to use the arrow.

[Solarius Scorch]

I suppose that if anything, the Arrow competes with the Little Bird, not the MiG.

I don't think I can change its stats any further without losing touch with what it is in reality, though.

[psavola]

I was puzzled by OP's suggestion that someone would consider using ARROW without STINGRAY missile launcher. But I suppose someone does.. and in that role I suppose it could be underwhelming.

In addition to dealing with the cults, missile-powered ARROW is also suitable for shooting down syndicate retaliation crafts (scarab and dragonfly) while LITTLE BIRD is too slow for them (not sure if it would have firepower anyway). So I suppose it's closer to MIGs at least with this respect.

[envLight]

I don't think I can change its stats any further without losing touch with what it is in reality, though.

Then what about alternative before-raider fly vehicle? :p

I heard ideas that Canadian goverment could rebrand CF-105 project into commercial jets, why not bring some retired people to help defeat the cult invasion?

[Solarius Scorch]

Then what about alternative before-raider fly vehicle? :p

I am not against it on principle, but I doubt we can squeeze one more transporter in there. It's already crowded as heck and IMO would feel like bloat.

[hairybert]

It feels like the CF-105 ARROW is a bit weak, maybe it should be buffed a bit,

I don't think I can change its stats any further without losing touch with what it is in reality, though.

Maybe the CF-105 could show up a bit earlier in the game timeline?
In a typical (spoiled) game, it comes only shortly before the MiG is available and thus is superseded soon.

Possibilities include getting a hint for the CF-105 from a secret file. Or to unlock it already from intterrogating the next lower rank to an EXALT master, which I think is an EXALT enforcer.

OTOH, the question is what this would really change. As pointed out by psavola and discussed there https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=12250.0, it could help with Syndicate retaliation, but you still won't be able to do the subsequent missions with the short time window.

[Empiro]

The question is definitely what niche the Arrow fulfills. Even the MIG doesn't have much of a niche -- it's far too fragile to intercept any UFOs, and I don't think I've ever used a single one because the Interceptor does the job so much better.

By the point you can get the Stingray, you've got promo 3 and the Interceptor isn't far off. With just the cannon, you can't reliably fight the level 3 cult manors. Even against the level 2 cults, there's not much of a difference compared to the Little Bird.

[psavola]

In my dozen campaigns, I have never used MIGs or even INTERCEPTORs myself. Now that KITSUNE has been pushed off a bit, I might consider one of these, depending on when I get access to alien power systems research and at which point I'm with the Syndicate arc when this happens.

The specific niche for ARROW is that it is fast (compared to LITTLE BIRD). You will want faster crafts than LITTLE BIRD by the point you need to prepare for and to respond to syndicate retaliation. But I suppose you should be Promo III when this happens and could use others beside the ARROW (and you may want to have a couple of interceptors across the globe, so that you can respond to the retaliation whereever it spawns). Before KITSUNE was pushed off, I used KITSUNE for shooting down the syndicate. Post-change, I think I had already access and built a THUNDERSTORM to take care of the bastards.

[norpan83]

I agree that you don't really need early combat aircraft. The manor defenders are slow enough that you can just fly in and out without them catching you.

But my point is that as the CF-105 ARROW is an unique aircraft,  it would be nice if it had some use case, however niche.

[Alex_D]

The CF-105 Arrow has a niche, albeit, as Canadian, if it's only to soothe some bitter-sweet feelings about the Avro Arrow program 

Jokes aside, the IRL plane was designed as a long range interceptor of Soviet bombers during the early Cold War. It was designed with a multipurpose belly-located internal bay, which could have dropped bombs or fire missiles. I don't recall reading the Arrow was designed to be armed with a bullet firing cannon. I suppose in XCF, the Arrow was rebuilt with a cannon mount as well.

The rebuilt Arrow in XCF could show up a little bit earlier, and it's "free" plane. But arming it with cannons only is a bit risky. XCF doesn't have the same large variety of craft weapons like Piratez, so missiles would do.

As for "improvements" to the XCF CF-105 Arrow, I could suggest modifying the missile hard point of the arrow to accept anything about missiles, and all sort of avionic electronic mods, like larger radar or fuel tank.

In my current campaign I took the mothballed Arrow and put in storage. I had two X-Com interceptors operational by the time the Arrow showed up.

[envLight]

In my dozen campaigns, I have never used MIGs or even INTERCEPTORs myself. Now that KITSUNE has been pushed off a bit, I might consider one of these, depending on when I get access to alien power systems research and at which point I'm with the Syndicate arc when this happens.

I built a bunch of interceptors in late 1999 because I was behind alien development and expected a full scale invasion. What was my surprise when it became obsolete literally within two game months, and ate up a huge chunk of my budget. And the aliens decided to sit tight for a couple months. xD