Author Topic: "Turkey peek" / Corner site / Shooting from cover  (Read 7615 times)

Offline ClaytonCross

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"Turkey peek" / Corner site / Shooting from cover
« on: May 15, 2013, 07:25:42 am »
"Turkey peek" / Corner site / Shooting from cover is another X-com:EU upgrade that I would like added as an OPTION.

To clarify, In X-com: UFO defense if your standing at the corner of a building you can only see at a 45 degree angle (diagonally) meaning that you have to step out of cover into a direct path to see an alien 2 squares away. In X-com:EU if you are at a corner you can see anyone in a strait line  as if you are standing in the line beside the building, and you can still shoot at any alien in that line from cover. Which allows you to use the cover of corners and assault more tactically. In the real world there is a name for this, its called a "turkey peek" and they actually teach this in the military. You peek out with your rifle long enough to see and maybe shoot then pull back into cover so you don't get shot in the head.

Now I am aware that in the game this raises two issues, which is why I think it has to be an option you can turn on and off. First, is a lot of people will say walking around the corner into an alien 2 squares away and getting blown away by auto shot is part of X-com and they are not wrong. It does add to the fear factor that whole leap of "oh crap here I go!" lol. But for the same reasons JS removed added the view to allow turkey peek at corners I want it as well, in that it adds more command control and makes the game a little less about luck and a little more about tactics. Secondly, when you make the player capable of finding enemies like this it will make the game easier, which is in opposition to why some of use love x-com... unless the aliens can do it too. If it is possible for aliens to do it as well they will also be harder to kill, but if they can't I would like to level the playing field reducing the number of soldiers I use. This will make my games faster and also more tactical .... sound familiar? lol. Don't get me wrong I want to play the original X-com in its original state some times, but it would be a nice option once in a while or for one play through.


---UPDATE / Correction:

I just played X-com:EU and realized they don't actually turkey peek. When you click fire they step out into the open around the corner one square then switch to shoot cam and fire, after shooting they then step back behind the corner. This "free"/automated move allows for easier line of site and shooting mechanic without them having to create varied cinema screens for the shot cam.   ... It would also be easier to duplicate in the original version.... if anyone understands what I am talking about, lol.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 08:03:07 am by ClaytonCross »

Offline ClaytonCross

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Re: "Turkey peek" / Corner site / Shooting from cover
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 08:15:10 am »
So I am bumping my thread this one and only time because I added clarification under the guess no one commented (good or bad) because I can't explain myself well enough for anyone to get what I am saying across.   I will say no more unless someone asks a question.  :-X

Offline SeanEBlog

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Re: "Turkey peek" / Corner site / Shooting from cover
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2013, 09:54:52 am »
I believe you can already manually turkey peak in this game using strafing. Simply have a solider go up to corner, have him turn to the right direction, then use ctrl left click to have him move one square over and then move back when he's done.

This will not prevent enemy reaction fire however.

Offline ClaytonCross

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Re: "Turkey peek" / Corner site / Shooting from cover
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2013, 02:41:22 am »
I believe you can already manually turkey peak in this game using strafing. Simply have a solider go up to corner, have him turn to the right direction, then use ctrl left click to have him move one square over and then move back when he's done.

This will not prevent enemy reaction fire however.

I actually did not know about the ctrl strafe, which is interesting and maybe useful in implementing my idea, however the being able to see around the corner and "shoot from cover" with out triggering reaction fire is the point. Perhaps a turkey button could be added to ctrl strafe out (with out triggering reaction fire), you can then shoot only but not move and if you move any other soldier or end the turn the unit will automatically ctrl strafe back or you can hit the button again when your done.  ... even if it cost TU it would not bother me, in fact that could add another strategic consideration "do I leave enough time units to turkey peek or do I risk that there is guy right around the corner who could kill me next turn?" It could even cost alot of points so that you can only turkey peek and snap shot in the same turn, to reflect the hiding behind cover and the make you decide between the use of cover for defense or foreword assault and the use of auto shot. I like that because it makes snap shot more important to the game.

Offline moriarty

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Re: "Turkey peek" / Corner site / Shooting from cover
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2013, 12:55:22 pm »
it's really a big change in the game mechanics, though. the new XCOM:EU has a radically different approach to that, by completely eliminating facing: your soldiers (and the aliens, too!) always have a 360° field of vision, plus always looking "around" the cover they are currently using... it is a more "dynamic" approach to the whole turn-based setting, emphasized by the fact that your soldiers are never standing still, and even continuing weapons fire animations for suppression and the like.

so what I'm saying is that the whole "turkey peek" thing, while certainly an interesting mechanic, would disrupt the way the classic XCOM is set up. it would change a whole lot of the gameplay. I don't know how you would want to balance it, because if you give the aliens the same possibilities (and the AI to use them) people would surely be upset about being shot by aliens they cannot even see... :)

Offline Sharp

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Re: "Turkey peek" / Corner site / Shooting from cover
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2013, 10:05:11 pm »
so what I'm saying is that the whole "turkey peek" thing, while certainly an interesting mechanic, would disrupt the way the classic XCOM is set up. it would change a whole lot of the gameplay. I don't know how you would want to balance it, because if you give the aliens the same possibilities (and the AI to use them) people would surely be upset about being shot by aliens they cannot even see... :)

Aliens can already do that though right?

https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Line_of_sight under blind spots, haven't tested if this is the case for OpenXCOM though.

Offline ClaytonCross

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Re: "Turkey peek" / Corner site / Shooting from cover
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2013, 04:47:06 am »
@moriarty

I do agree that Xcom:EU is very different and that a trying to make them too similar is not the goal (For example I do don't the 360 view you mentioned). However that is not to say Xcom:EU does not have plenty upgrades and options worth stealing and I would have to agree with Jake Solomon that making cover more functional makes the game more tactical and in my mind more fun. That being said I do think if possible it would be better if you could turn the feature on and off. Leave it as off for default so that the game stays as true to the original as possible unless someone wants to mix it up. I also see that giving this to the player makes the game easier and that giving it to the aliens makes it much harder and that would not really scale with difficulty but I really like the idea of aliens jumping out and shooting people and then disappearing. That was something the shackled AIs, 360 view, shorter alien firing range, and removal alien impunity to light restrictions took away that I really miss about the original. As Sharp said being shot by aliens in blind spots and next to door ways when you walk strait in is much part of the original and I would very much like to keep that this would only make cover useful and perhaps add to that.

@Sharp

Thanks that was a great link for this topic, it really point out 1 the usefulness of it and 2 that to some degree the aliens can already to this. I also like the links break down of aliens ignoring day/night and having a 20 tile line of site where humans have 20 at day and 9 at night so its not like we are not used to being shot by aliens we can't see. Thanks again for your post.