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Author Topic: Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings  (Read 4585 times)

Offline cleanass

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Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings
« on: April 04, 2024, 01:06:23 am »
Hi folks,

I have enjoyed multiple playthroughs of this wonderful mod. You have given me the joy of childhood which I feared forever lost, and for that, I am eternally grateful. However, the Cydonia ending is a bit anti-climatic after a few times.

I am willing to pay for at least 2 more alternate endings to be developed. This could be a setting at the start of the game, e.g.
- Alternate Ending Random
- Alternate Ending One
- Alternate Ending Two
...

The actual "depth" of this alternate ending isn't even that important, so long as it's a surprise, and at least close in depth to the Cydonia ending.

I can pay in crypto or wire transfer or whatever. We can workout format and simple agreement, I can even have it notarized and enforcable in USA if you'd like.

I would of course want this to be released and incorporated into next version of the mod. This must be shared.

Any takers?

Offline Juku121

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Re: Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2024, 01:59:12 am »
I'll just state up front that I don't have the time, willingness nor mapmaking chops to do this. And $1000 is not exactly a lucrative offer for several months' worth of free time, either.


But on the offhand chance (probably a really tiny, Sectoid pet rat sized chance) someone else does: how do you define 'close in depth to the Cydonia ending'? Is this just about one mission at the end of some existing story arc different from current pre-Cydonia stuff? An entire additional story arc? A different set of a few missions instead of the Lunar Base raids, but proceeding from the same general anti-alien/MiB arc?


I don't think the engine actually supports an alternate 'Cydonia', although it does look like you can make any old mission end in total victory or defeat (not necessarily at the same time).

And you probably aren't going to get animated cutscenes, a slideshow at best. I don't think any mod to date has made new animations, though I could be wrong.

Offline cleanass

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Re: Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2024, 03:35:58 am »
Regarding "how do you define" - I'm basically talking about the last mission where you go to cydonia, which IIRC is two-part mission, first above ground, then under.

Not talking about entire separate story arcs or something as drastic, requiring "several months of time" as you put it. I don't see a reason to lose Lunar raids or anything else for that matter.

Don't need any animated cutscenes, but some custom art at the end would be cool, maybe AI-generated.

Offline Juku121

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Re: Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2024, 10:57:10 am »
Well, a single mission with an end-of-the-game cutscene seems a lot easier than what I imagined at first.

If you don't find takers here, perhaps ask on one of the Discords/Matrixes.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2024, 03:09:32 pm »
Well, I am seriously considering adding multiple endings anyway (based on siding with other factions). However, it remains only a possibility due to how much time and effort would be required.

I honestly appreciate the offer, but regardless of what happens, I'm not taking commissions like this one. I'm already spending as much time on XCF as I can and want to, so it's not really a money issue. I simply don't want to devote more time to modding XCF, since for me it's a hobby and I don't want too many constraints, especially considering that I'm also somewhat involved with making content for X-Piratez.

Besides, I think such a paid commission would go a bit too far with how modding is supposed to work, especially considering that other people actively participated in making XCF for free. (Yes, I have a Patreon, but it only offers small, symbolic rewards to patrons, so IMO it's not paid content.)

Having said all that, I'm happy to know that there is demand for multiple endings. Maybe one day?

Offline cleanass

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Re: Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2024, 10:24:09 pm »
Thanks for the input.

I found your point about going bit too far with "how modding is supposed to work" to be rather interesting.

As a professional software developer of over 20 years myself, I recall countless times that I contributed to open source projects, based on some custom features that we needed to build for our own purposes, for which we were paid. The customers were usually happy about the prospect of integrating their paid work into open source project, because they would get benefit of further development and refinement of said feature for free, by the community.

Personally, I don't see an issue here. Seems to be like everyone benefits at the end. Those people that are on the sidelines that "actively pariticpated in making XCF" are welcome to participate in this, just as much as you.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2024, 12:18:52 pm »
I understand that you don't see the issue, but some people very much do. I wouldn't want to rile up the community by producing literally paid content, that's one thing.
But also, I think it goes too far against the principle of modding. It is a legal grey area by nature and therefore should avoid any suspicion of monetization. Secondly and perhaps more importantly, it is meant to be a hobby and artistic expression - charging money for it is just inappropriate and socially harmful. That's like paying a game master to run RPG games "because they need to make the effort".
Naturally, this is largely off-topic, but I thought I should share my point of view. Please note that these are my personal opinions, and some important, respectable members of this community see it differently. It's a complex issue. But I think we all agree that modding is worth doing, and we are grateful to the players who appreciate our work. :)

Offline cleanass

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Re: Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2024, 08:14:10 pm »
I think "paid content" usually means that you are selling your work to users. We aren't selling anything to anyone here, the plan is to give it away for free.

Offline Juku121

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Re: Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2024, 09:12:31 pm »
Here, the problem with paid content is not whether it's given away for free in the end, but rather in who gets a say in what the content is. Patron-type supporters usually get some rather minor say, your version comes potentially with a notarised and presumably enforceable contract.

Now, it may or may not be a significant problem, depending on the details, but I kinda felt the urge to rant a little, so... :P


In my experience, the problem with paid modding is threefold:
  • It prioritises one person's desires over an entire fan base, one that is usually much more relevant to the game/mod. The 'whale' problem, so to speak. Not really a modding example, but some really egregious examples that come to mind are Drevan from Pathfinder: Kingmaker and all the 'purple prose' backer characters in the first Pillars of Eternity.
  • It provides perverse incentives to the modder, blurring the line between hobby and work. On one end of the spectrum, the ultimate worst end of this path are the Patreon grifters who make a dozen 'updates' per year and are constantly 'ill', 'depressed' and 'on vacation'. The other end is making modding too much like work, to the point it is no longer fun and the modder retires and goes on to find more relaxing hobbies.
  • Competition and drama within the modding scene. We've had our own version with Hobbes and the Terrain Pack that got used in Piratez, which was taking (small) donations. Perhaps the most famous example is the fiasco when Nexus made their 'paid modding' system. They've walked it back somewhat, and it was not the healthiest scene in the first place, but still.

And, well, usually the reason people don't take paid commissions is because they've already got more things than they will ever be able to tackle on their todo list, and a commission is likely not to align very well with their overall vision. If the stars align and the commission is something they really wanted to do in the first place, that's where this kind of proposal can work out reasonably well.

Case in point, I gather from Solarius' reply that just replacing Cydonia with another mission is not what his end goal is. So at best this will be a placeholder mission or missions that gets replaced at some point, at worst it'll be creative self-sabotage. In either case, it'll be 'wasted' time from the perspective of realising their own vision.

Also, what Solarius said. Modding has been walking the line between 'authorised by the IP holders' and 'blatant piracy' a lot, and most genuinely interesting mods I know are guilty of intellectual theft to some degree of another. So, as a sort of penance, modders generally try not to gather more coals on their heads by also asking for payment.

Finally, your example of getting paid to write features for open-source projects in the hopes that the community will maintain those for free doesn't really sound as A-OK as you're trying to picture it. Essentially, it seems that you and your client were hoping to cruise forever on other people's voluntary work in return for a one-time contribution. Perhaps there's more nuance to it and it was not quite as one-sided as that, but this seems to be the essence of it.



In the end, these might or might not be insurmountable problems in a specific case, like this proposal here, but there are enough issues to make any experienced modder wary of taking such an offer just on principle.



P.S. There are paid tabletop GMs, and opinion on whether they're worth it is just as divided as the opinion on paid modding, if not more so.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2024, 09:28:35 pm by Juku121 »

Offline cleanass

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Re: Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2024, 09:42:05 pm »
Thanks for the insights!

If all these things are concerns for anybody, I suggest an alternative: I will donate the money to a charity of your chosing.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2024, 11:38:02 am »
Like I said, I'm not in a position to offer whole new arcs, regardless of where the hypothetical money would go. But if I can, I will go in that direction anyway, eventually.

Also thanks for the comment Juku, that's quite insightful.

P.S. There are paid tabletop GMs

Not on my continent. :P

Offline Finnik

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Re: Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2024, 08:04:27 am »

Not on my continent. :P

I used to GM don't pay for pizza and drinks, ordered for the session =)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2024, 11:13:36 am »
I used to GM don't pay for pizza and drinks, ordered for the session =)

That's not payment, that's bribing a GM, and it's within the accepted norm. ;D

Offline 75338

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Re: Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2024, 06:46:13 pm »
Mad respect for the work done on this mod.

I'm guessing a bunch of people wanting to throw money or bid on development would get annoying, but I'd love to see a way to be able to pledge money for different stuff.

I'd chip in $10 for the alternate ending. I'd gladly pay $100 to graphically show agents using commercial planes from major city hub to major city hub in the early game.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Willing to pay $1000 USD for alternate endings
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2024, 07:42:46 pm »
I'd chip in $10 for the alternate ending. I'd gladly pay $100 to graphically show agents using commercial planes from major city hub to major city hub in the early game.

Me too! :D