Chump desperately needs help :P

[YolosaurusRex]

Hello! So far, I'm loving the mod, but definitely getting frustrated because, well, I'm getting my @r$3 kicked :/. While I have never played an XCOM game myself, I watched the Lewis & Ben playthroughs, & I've played a decent bit of strategy games.

I'm playing on Veteran, but I've had missions that felt...impossible to win, let alone come out with a positive score. Civs always seem to get butchered, no matter what I do. Zombie missions inevitably result in me getting swarmed & running after losing an agent or two.
Also, in Jan 1998, I had "Cult Manor-3" spawn near one of my bases... and lost some of my best agents trying to deal with it.

What am I doing wrong? I'm guessing most of the difficult is coming from how I'm playing. I've attached my save file, if anyone is willing to have a look at it.


Also, a question: when should I aim to have promotion II unlocked?

[Vakrug]

Not every mission is winnable. At least from the beginning. Save your men.
Cult manors should be dealt with 16 seat plane (OSPREY).
Promotion II is always number one priority.

[Nerro]

You can't win every missions. Sometime, running away is better that losing to many agents.
Civilians are mostly going to die on most mission. If you really want ot save them, the best thing to do is to stun them. The alien don't attack stunned units.

If the cult manor is really close, you can maybe reach it with a Mudranger (crew transport with a lot of space but very low range). It is a very hard mission so you will need a lot of agents (and you will lose a good number). If it is not close enougth to be reached by the mudranger, then avoid it until you get a better crew transport.

Promotion 2 is very good, you should aim for it as soon as you can afford to.

[YolosaurusRex]

Well, wrt the promotion II timing, I guess a question is "What's a typical/par-for-the-course" timeframe? I'm trying to gauge just how much I botched my playthrough 

[Juku121]

What am I doing wrong?

1) Playing ironman. Unless you're generally proficient with this type of game, know how base OG X-Com works, and spend some time learning how the mod changes things, this is not the time to take the kid wheels off. It's like jumping into nuCom on Classic and then being surprised that the game is hard.

2) Not enough labs.You've researched but not built Intelligence Centers, have only one base with 10 scientists and nobody at the other base.

3) No real transports, just vans and luxury cars. This far into the game, you should have at least helicopters and Hummers, if not Dragonflys. You do have helicopters, but are not using them.

4) Your score is like a rollercoaster, and funding consequently meager.

5) Ignoring smoke grenades. 'Nuff said.

6) Not a big deal, but electric clubs are generally better than tonfas since less enemies resist their damage. Probably a wash against most cultists.



Promotion II should come no later than start of 1998, and preferably much earlier.

[YolosaurusRex]

Oh. Well, I've completely borked my playthrough xD.

Oh! I remembered more questions that I had...

With Smoke Grenades, where do I throw them, in relation to enemy forces?

I've seen "suppressing fire" mentioned in the UFOpedia, does shooting at an enemy (even if it misses) reduce their accuracy?

Are handcuffs worth using?

Did I build a 2nd base too early?

I almost obsessively kneel....is that bad? Does kneeling provide any benefit other than accuracy?


Sorry for all my chump/newb questions...

[Juku121]

Well, it's not totally irrecoverable.

Smoke grenades go between you and the enemy. Given that it is not always clear where the enemy will be, smoking yourself is not a bad idea, either.

Suppressive fire is sadly not in the game and the Ufopedia entries are mostly fluff. This was one thing Xenonauts did that was miles better than anything related to the original. The closest thing we have here is some guns with spray waypoints (and scripted flashbangs).

I think the consensus is that handcuffs are not particularly useful. I suppose you could get some utility out of them if you tried, but usually it seems better to just shoot the enemy once more with the taser, or make an agent sit on top of them if they're really valuable and you have the agent and TU to spare.


When did you build your second base? Generally, I think the timing seems okay. Personally, I'd want something like 4 bases by 1998. But when I play, I change the mod quite a bit, and I think I've seen people do well enough with two bases or even one base quite a bit more into the game.

Kneeling also reduces your voxel profile, so it's a small defensive boost. And allows you to throw/launch grenades at a slightly different trajectory, which is most useful indoors. I also kneel a lot, but I've increased the accuracy bonus for myself. But even without that, there are some weapons (mortars, miniguns) where kneeling makes a massive difference in accuracy.

[YolosaurusRex]

I can't remember when exactly I build the 2nd base, but my guess is maybe June? I feel like it ate up a bunch of my money though. Granted, that could come from skill issue .



Oh! Also: does reaction fire deal extra damage? Is it ever better to not shoot a visible/viable target, but instead wait for the reaction fire?

For a first playthrough, would you recommend I stay on Veteran, or should I switch to the lower (#2) difficulty?

(edit: added another question) Wait, you say you've increased the accuracy bonus for yourself in kneeling? Do you mean manually editing the files?

[Nerro]

Reaction fire is the same as normal fire except:
- It is random (based on reaction stat and remaining TU). It may not trigger when you need it.
- It trains the reaction stat.

If you never played X-Com before, I would recommand reducing the difficulty.
The game is not that hard, but the mechanics are extremelly complex. If you don't understand those you will get overwhelmed.

[Juku121]

Bases eat money, but they also earn money from more missions and thus more loot. June sounds okay-ish, depending on what you gave up to do that.

No, reaction fire has no special properties. If you can shoot them now instead of later, it's quite likely the better option. There are some exceptions, like hiding around a corner or waiting for them to come into vision range, but these are exceptions rather than the rule.

Edit: Reactions are also trained by a lot of weapons, including the basic stun stick. Plys gym training and transformations. So it's not like in the original where you had to do reaction fire in order to raise the stat. /edit

I think Veteran is fine, that's what Solarius is using as the default. I'd go lower only if you have some specific issue - like "The enemy is always killing me", or "Zombies are eating my face", or "I lost due to score", or "This manor bullshit is ruining my game", or something along these lines. Lower difficulties actually have a slight problem in that there are less enemies, which means less loot, less money and less score.


Yes, changing the YAML files. I habitually mod the heck out of the games I play and OpenXcom is very nice and easy to mod.

[YolosaurusRex]

Yes, changing the YAML files. I habitually mod the heck out of the games I play and OpenXcom is very nice and easy to mod.

Oh!

How may I learn this art? I'm presuming I can't learn this from a Jedi...Is there a guide on the forum?

[Juku121]

Well, I think the easiest thing to do is to look at examples (like the XCF mod itself), and use the Jedi Manual of Messing with OXCE when not sure what to do or what even can be done.

There are more advanced features than just changing/adding data, and an entire help subforum, including some guides. But those are, again, generally about the more involved stuff like mapmaking or graphics. Just editing the .rul files is dead simple compared to that.

[Empiro]

Oh. Well, I've completely borked my playthrough xD.

Oh! I remembered more questions that I had...

With Smoke Grenades, where do I throw them, in relation to enemy forces?

Generally, throw them where your troops are, or between your troops and the enemy (closer to you). Avoid throwing at the enemy. The main reason is that smoke grenades essentially add squares to vision range. If it covers your soldiers, then you have really good control over who you can and can't see (by moving into or out of the smoke), and each square of smoke you move through means an enemy has to move through several squares. The general strategy is to deploy the smoke, walk out and spot an enemy, shoot them directly (if you can risk the reaction fire), or walk back and shoot them blindly (or with another soldier).

However, many animals and aliens have some sort of thermal vision and/or PSI vision. Those can partially or completely negate any benefits of smoke. If you have their combat stats, you can check for those abilities in the Info screen. Note that your own dogs also have thermal vision, so use this to your advantage!

Another important note is that if you hit any enemies on your turn (or their turn) with a shot (or direct hit from a grenade launcher), you're automatically "known" to the enemy until the end of their turn. Many enemies in this game can shoot you if they "know" about you, so smoke may be way less effective if you've hit anyone on your turn. Red Dawn has many enemies like this, so if you want to use smoke grenades, make sure you can either find hard cover or throw grenades instead.

Are handcuffs worth using?

Occasionally. Some enemies tend to recover stun damage much faster than normal. Some are just that important and I don't want to have to deal with them.

Did I build a 2nd base too early?

Rather than a time, I look at money. I usually try to build a second base when I have about 2 million dollars. That's about how much to get a new base up and running (Hanger + Stores + Quarters + Gym + construction cost). I also try to start saving for the Intelligence Center so that I can immediately increase my research capacity.

I almost obsessively kneel....is that bad? Does kneeling provide any benefit other than accuracy?

It makes you slightly harder to hit too. In some cases (kneeling behind your car, for example), it can block line-of-sight.

As I've gotten better at the game, I definitely find myself kneeling a bit less. It's usually better to keep your mobility and move out of sight behind a solid wall, or into dense smoke. I'll kneel if there's not much else I can do, or if I need to make an important shot and have the TUs to spare. However, keep in mind that kneeling can mess up line-of-sight, so I try not to do that unless I'm sure that it won't mess things up.

Well, wrt the promotion II timing, I guess a question is "What's a typical/par-for-the-course" timeframe? I'm trying to gauge just how much I botched my playthrough 

I usually try to get that around September or October of 1997 if I can. However, there's a luck component that's out of your control -- you need to get a researchable Cool Alien Gadget (usually a Psi Clone) and the 2nd tier of cultists from all 4 cults. One recent game, I did not get a single EXALT Safehouse until December, even though I had researched EXALT either in Jan or Feb. In a different game, it took me a very long time to find a Psi Clone. The main advantage of having Promotion 2 early is that you can get access to Armored Vests, which makes a huge difference in casualty rates.

It's not too big of a deal if you get to it early 1998, because before then, it's hard to have enough money to build a lab and hire 25 scientists. You won't be at risk of falling behind in research as long as you make sure to save up money to get the lab as soon as its unlocked.

Sorry for all my chump/newb questions...

No problem. I like answering these, because often the discussion leads to me getting better too.

Start of game, I would say the most important research are: Logistics (Van), Kevlar Vests (basic protection for cult missions), and Promotion 1 (smoke grenades). After that, try to get Dogs (helps a ton with undercover missions which are money makers), followed by the Helicopter to get 6 Soldiers out on missions. Better weapons can usually wait a bit, since you'll likely loot plenty of rifles that you can immediately use. However, the Hunting Rifle is pretty darn good.

[psavola]

Generally, throw them where your troops are, or between your troops and the enemy (closer to you). Avoid throwing at the enemy. The main reason is that smoke grenades essentially add squares to vision range. If it covers your soldiers, then you have really good control over who you can and can't see (by moving into or out of the smoke), and each square of smoke you move through means an enemy has to move through several squares. The general strategy is to deploy the smoke, walk out and spot an enemy, shoot them directly (if you can risk the reaction fire), or walk back and shoot them blindly (or with another soldier).

I'll just add one tidbit here. If you use smoke extensively *), it is often useful to have a scout drone with you, because it can see through smoke (with 50% thermal vision). The big benefit of this is that you don't need to get out from the cover of smoke and get spotted (and after that, grenaded or sniped by the snipers). So using smoke but leaving it and getting spotted may be rather risky. The worst case scenario here would be that the snipers throw grenades at your 'scout agent' that returned to the cover of the smoke, but the same grenades also would kill those agents that never left the smoke. Another alternative is using dogs and try to find the enemies within the smoke using their sniffing (sensor).

*) I say this because it may be easier to do without in most missions in the early game, by going for the cults at night and throwing out flares. That way you don't cripple your own vision (or need dogs or drones), yet can still see the enemies.

Start of game, I would say the most important research are: Logistics (Van), Kevlar Vests (basic protection for cult missions), and Promotion 1 (smoke grenades). After that, try to get Dogs (helps a ton with undercover missions which are money makers), followed by the Helicopter to get 6 Soldiers out on missions. Better weapons can usually wait a bit, since you'll likely loot plenty of rifles that you can immediately use. However, the Hunting Rifle is pretty darn good.

While all of these are important, I'd suggest also going for the Bio Lab as soon as possible (and Intelligence center, once it becomes viable later on). Being able to get 5 or 10 additional scientists (i.e. double or triple your research capacity) speeds up your research and all the others a LOT. Struggling by with 5 scientists for a long time slows your progress. While logistics is a big priority, I think trying to get Bio Lab faster makes more sense than, for example, obtaining better protection (that won't probably save you all the time anyway).

[Empiro]

I'll just add one tidbit here. If you use smoke extensively *), it is often useful to have a scout drone with you, because it can see through smoke (with 50% thermal vision). The big benefit of this is that you don't need to get out from the cover of smoke and get spotted (and after that, grenaded or sniped by the snipers). So using smoke but leaving it and getting spotted may be rather risky. The worst case scenario here would be that the snipers throw grenades at your 'scout agent' that returned to the cover of the smoke, but the same grenades also would kill those agents that never left the smoke. Another alternative is using dogs and try to find the enemies within the smoke using their sniffing (sensor).

*) I say this because it may be easier to do without in most missions in the early game, by going for the cults at night and throwing out flares. That way you don't cripple your own vision (or need dogs or drones), yet can still see the enemies.

I prefer dogs for seeing through smoke because a) they can run and move a lot more squares per turn b) can bite enemies that get close and c) can easily get more of them (always a risk of an AI unit getting shot and then permanently destroyed by a grenade)

I like night missions a lot too, but one source of frustration is that it can be hard to tell if a square is illuminated or not, and a mistake there can be deadly. Is there any good ways (extra info keys, views, etc.) to tell if a square is lit up or not?

While all of these are important, I'd suggest also going for the Bio Lab as soon as possible (and Intelligence center, once it becomes viable later on). Being able to get 5 or 10 additional scientists (i.e. double or triple your research capacity) speeds up your research and all the others a LOT. Struggling by with 5 scientists for a long time slows your progress. While logistics is a big priority, I think trying to get Bio Lab faster makes more sense than, for example, obtaining better protection (that won't probably save you all the time anyway).

Intel labs usually come first in my games -- I haven't found too much of a need for better medical equipment early on, and you want to research all 4 cults quickly anyway.