Recommended rifle

[Charly1]

I am using mostly Magnums for all of my agents. I have a couple of hunting rifles.

Never a big fan of shotguns because of the range.

What is the best P2 level rifle and assault rifle, especially for AP purposes?

Cheers!

[Juku121]

Hunting rifles still perform much better at long-range shots.

Once you get your accuracy up, shotguns actually have more accuracy at range than magnums. Slugs are also a thing.

In fact, I have a hard time seeing how Magnums are more accurate than shotguns. I just tried an old save with 66-accuracy agents, a plain pump-action vs a magnum. At its max 'effective' range, the magnum's aimed shot had 59 accuracy vs the shotgun's 81. The shotgun did go to 0 accuracy one tile earlier, but some more accuracy training will fix that. For snap shots, it was 46 vs 42, though the shotgun petered out much faster.

Of course, you can shoot more often with a Magnum, one-handed, all that jazz. But range on a Magnum is not really all that much better than for a shotgun.

Btw, Desert Eagles are better than Magnums until alloy ammo becomes a thing. Less damage lost to armour, mildly longer range before accuracy penalties kick in, one extra round per mag.

What is the best P2 level rifle and assault rifle, especially for AP purposes?

Assault rifle: the Smartrifle. AP rifle: BO Sniper Rifle. Honourable mention: SVD for up to three snap shots a turn, power bonus from accuracy and 50-200% damage, all without the drawbacks of a dedicated sniper rifle.

How good and easy to access the BO weapons are (if you go for them and aren't screwed over by RNG) has been a point of contention for a while.

[Charly1]

Thanks mate

Interesting on the shotguns. I had a couple of spec ops magnums early on and I like being able to duel wield a melee, stunner or torch. Cant say I have had a problem, but maybe I should give the shotguns a try.

Which would you recommend?

Will check out he Desert Eagle too.

And while I am here... I jusrt had a humans v monsters mission. All the civilians and zombie are now dead, and these 2 armoured red guys with swords just wont seem to die, or even get injured when I hit them with a baradiche or hunting rifle. Do i have the capability to damage them with these weapons?

[Juku121]

For shotguns and Promo II, I recommend the 'Shotgun' shotgun and its successor the BO Shotgun. Wide variety of ammo, passable accuracy. There's also Solarius's favourite, the Sawed-Off, which can hit at a surprising distance.

CAWS for fast fire and Thrashers for absolute devastation are worth trying later on. Full auto shotguns are mostly for anti-Zombie work if that. Some heavy weapons also fire interesting sorts of buckshot, like the infamous Light Cannons from the other thread.


For the monster mission, I see you're having your (first?) encounter with the vampires. People tend to set them on fire to get some breathing room.

Bardiches should work if you can hit them. Even a merely fully gymmed agent (60 melee, 45 strength) should be doing almost 30 damage a pop on average to the sides and back.

[Charly1]

I hit him about 4 times in a turn with my big axe, but there was no red damage indicator after any of the hits. Then I stabbed him with my second guy with a combat knife about 4 times.

Then he had his go... It was not pretty.

[Juku121]

Did you actually hit him? Was there a hit sound and/or a white 'no damage' flash? Maybe he's just dodging, these effing vampires have over 30 dodge.

[termidor]

For an assault rifle at promo II I would recommend the G11 mainly due to how good the auto fire is. Forget about all other rifles that need to use snap fire because they can shit beyond 4 titles, the G11 behaves as his name indicate in being an assault rifle with 65% acc in auto maintained up to 14 titles ( pratically same acc of a AKM snap). Plus it can do two aimed shots from a fix position which is always good for long range engagements. Plus if your soldier is brave it actually hits hard.

For rifles, while the hunting rifle is verry competitive, I prefer switching to the SVD and standard sniper rifles at promo II main reason due to the power bonus from accuracy. Also I agree with juku, shotguns > magnums, plus they can be equipped with baton shells that while incconsistent, can be useful for capturing enemies.

[Charly1]

I got access to blackops stuff pretty quickly after Promotion 2.

Its hard to see past the blackops sniper rifle at the moment.

In fact most weapons you gain access to at P2 look worse than what black ops have on offer. I never really got past hunting rifles.

Maybe black ops stuff should take slightly longer to get?

[Marrik]

Once I get them I mostly use PSG-1's and Colt Commandos. There are better rifles in the mod, but I like to stick with real-world firearms when possible as a self-imposed challenge.

[Juku121]

But... Colt Commandos and PSG-1 rifles were historically rather niche weapons. Commandos were also nearly dead by the time the PSG-1 started production as well.

SVDs and AKs, or M16s and .308s would be some of the 'realistic' combos.

Of course, maybe your paranormal investigation agency is made up of exotic weapon enthusiasts who will riot if issued 'mainstream' weapons.

[Jimboman]

I like to play 'semi-realistically' in the early game, so I give my agents weapons that are available in the area of their base eg. M16s in the USA, AKs in Eastern Europe, FAMAS/L85s/AUGs in West Europe and AUGs in Australia (who use them for their military).

Once I get access to Blackops I use those, mainly the 'smart' versions, until more advanced weapons like lasers are available from MIB missions, which you use without researching them first.  Gauss weapons are powerful, but also very heavy so only one or two agents in a squad can use them so I don't bother and just sell any I capture.  I have captured Mass weapons, but I can't research them yet.

I also have some heavy weapons like MGs, RPGs, grenade launchers and cannons in my squads to deal with 'difficult' enemies.  RPGs or rocket-launchers can be used on the Little Birds along with MGs or miniguns by the way!

[termidor]

I got access to blackops stuff pretty quickly after Promotion 2.

Its hard to see past the blackops sniper rifle at the moment.

In fact most weapons you gain access to at P2 look worse than what black ops have on offer. I never really got past hunting rifles.

Maybe black ops stuff should take slightly longer to get?

I wouldn't say they overall replace all the Promo II stuff, as weapons like the OICW has no equivalent (well the Lc, but it is a joke ) and BO assault rifles are worse than the G11 due to being slower at firing. By Promo II I usually use:

Pistols: Mk23 Socom due to being common enough and having enough punch against more armored enemies. BO pistol is better due to more ammo and slighly better snap , but they ain't much difference. Although really pistols imo are better as backups comapare to smgs, so even the more weakly beretta can still be used against black lotus or Dagon. I'm not a fan of hand cannons overall, but I prefer the Deagle over the magnum at this point, or the Widley on high acc soldiers against less armored foes.

Smg: BO submachine gun is pretty good and replace the machine pistols (skorpion, rak) in being portable  enough and providing a lot of firepower. The Big Mac 10 is also an option althought frankly I find it to innaccurate. The other smg I used is the P 90 for less accurate agents as it's accurate, doesn't take a lot of TU and has good ap capacities.

Shotguns: Black ops all the way, first the BO shotgun and then the CAWS.

Rifles: G11 basically outshines everything else due to the reasons above, but also the OICW provides reasonable firepower while being long range enogh. BO rifle ain't that spectacualr without tritanium, and the BO assault rifle is a bad rifle overall.

Snipers: SVD and Bo sniper rifle.  Bo sniper rifle is slighly better than the PSG-1, and in hands of less trained agents the .308 is better. SVD are much better than the auto sniper  and really shine as reaction fire long range rifles, hiiting like a truck.

Other BO weapons include the spypistol(worse imo than the snub revolver) the miniguns (ligth one being okayish close range weapon, big one being a massive overkill), the machine guns (which IIRC the smart one isn't avatible early, so bad weapons overall) . So in summary I would say BO weapons complement, rather than replace standard weapons and really they ain't massively better with regular ammo compare to standard guns.

[Juku121]

...BO assault rifles are worse than the G11 due to being slower at firing.

IMO, the BO rifles, Smartrifle and G11 all have something to offer and none is strictly better than all others at all things:

• Smartrifle: Most lead downrange, best snap and aimed accuracy, TU and range (except aimed, where the BO Rifle is slightly better). Poorer armour penetration (90%).
  
• G11: Best auto-shot accuracy and range, three auto-shots per turn, middle-range armor penetration (85%). Damage is dependent on bravery and getting a soldier to have enough to compete with alloy ammo (180 bravery) can be hard. Poor aimed shot (so it's not really a rifle, more of a pseudo-machinegun), even if you might get to shoot twice per turn every once in a while.
  
• BO Rifle: Best aimed accuracy, best armor penetration (80%) for regular rounds (but not alloy ones, which are 85% for some reason).
  
• BO Assault Rifle: 4-shot autofire with the same 80% AP ammo. Two aimed shots per turn. Worse stats otherwise, though.
  

The Smartrifle is the best general-purpose rifle, the G11 is the best medium-range autorifle (assuming your soldier has enough bravery).

Pistols: Mk23 Socom due to being common enough and having enough punch against more armored enemies. BO pistol is better due to more ammo and slighly better snap , but they ain't much difference.

BO pistol has two other advantages: 1) it takes alloy rounds, so can get a mid-game damage upgrade (which is pretty big due to the game's armour penetration model), and 2) 4 extra tiles of aimed range, which is minor and mostly compensates for its lower aimed accuracy.

Shotguns: Black ops all the way, first the BO shotgun and then the CAWS.

No love for the Thrasher? That thing just deletes lightly armoured targets.

SVD are much better than the auto sniper  and really shine as reaction fire long range rifles, hiiting like a truck.

Being better might be true, hitting like a truck compared to the BO Auto-Sniper not quite, due to 1) alloy ammo and 2) much better armour penetration. Maybe it's irrelevant because you're not shooting armoured enemies much, but all the 'proper' sniper rifles have a better armour penetration coefficient than regular rifles. Which the SVD is for some reason, despite the 'S' in its name.

spypistol(worse imo than the snub revolver)

Spypistol's one party trick is being able to be taken to certain covert missions (industrial and skiing). Nailguns and crossbows are probably better, though.

...the machine guns (which IIRC the smart one isn't avatible early, so bad weapons overall).

Eh, I figure the plain BO LMG is about as much better as the real-world machineguns as the Smartgun is better than the BO LMG. If you compare the auto-shots for the G11 and the BO LMG, I think the BO LMG comes out on top, especially since you can trade shots for accuracy and vice versa.

So in summary I would say BO weapons complement, rather than replace standard weapons and really they ain't massively better with regular ammo compare to standard guns.

Really?

Pistols: Just minor improvements until alloy ammo and/or the smart versions, agreed.

SMGs: The BO SMG has a massively more accurate and flexible autofire, especially due to its 3-round snap. The Macro SMG has beastly damage on top of being quite accurate. Whether an SMG is something you want to use, well, IDK... But if you do, a BO version is significantly better in the SMG role (the P90 is sorta edging into assault rifle territory).

Assault rifles: Except for the G11, the BO rifles are noticeably better than the competion. Especially the versions that give you two aimed shots per turn on top of autofire. If you don't need both aimed and auto shots, you don't need an assault rifle, period.

Shotguns: Some of the best offerings are BO.

Machine guns: Also considerably better than historical weapons. The Smartgun is the best kinetic machine gun until the more sci-fi weapons show up.

Sniper rifles: Ditto.

Rifles: Yeah, worse than the scaling regular rifles.

Miniguns: No real competition. The actual SMGs of the mod, and good for stripping armour.

Heavy weapons: The BO Assault Cannon is better than the Auto-Cannon at what it does.


I'd say that except for handguns and non-sniper rifles, the BO weapons are all at least a moderate upgrade. And all of them get a new lease of life with alloy ammo.

[termidor]

Well I was leaving smart guns outside of the conversation as that is mostly syndicate missions, and that is  more promo III territory, ie only speaking about initial BO weapons + the auto sniper bc sometimes you randomly get it early. Same with tritanium ammo, you can get it not that late depending on RNG but I think it is higher tier stuff Regardless..
 

IMO, the BO rifles, Smartrifle and G11 all have something to offer and none is strictly better than all others at all things:

• Smartrifle: Most lead downrange, best snap and aimed accuracy, TU and range (except aimed, where the BO Rifle is slightly better). Poorer armour penetration (90%).
  
• G11: Best auto-shot accuracy and range, three auto-shots per turn, middle-range armor penetration (85%). Damage is dependent on bravery and getting a soldier to have enough to compete with alloy ammo (180 bravery) can be hard. Poor aimed shot (so it's not really a rifle, more of a pseudo-machinegun), even if you might get to shoot twice per turn every once in a while.
  
• BO Rifle: Best aimed accuracy, best armor penetration (80%) for regular rounds (but not alloy ones, which are 85% for some reason).
  
• BO Assault Rifle: 4-shot autofire with the same 80% AP ammo. Two aimed shots per turn. Worse stats otherwise, though.
  

The Smartrifle is the best general-purpose rifle, the G11 is the best medium-range autorifle (assuming your soldier has enough bravery).

Bo rifle get outshine by the L85 in medium range due to two snaps + one aimed shots (the Famas also can do this). Also the Nato battle rifles hit harder than the BO rifle with acc. Even the G11 can be better due to two aimed shots from a fix position. So yeah the Bo rifle may have one shot better accuracy, but the auto fire makes all the difference. There is no comparison between shooting 9 rounds for 84% TU to three snaps shots from the BO at 75% TU, and from a fixed spot two aimed shots > one aimed + one snap. You also get more ammo with the G11, and unlike the smart rifle, it is always accesible in 1997.



 

No love for the Thrasher? That thing just deletes lightly armoured targets.

I just noticed the Thraser is a promo I gun,    Yeah best shotgun for a dedicated shotgun role, not as multi-useful as the CAWS.

 

Being better might be true, hitting like a truck compared to the BO Auto-Sniper not quite, due to 1) alloy ammo and 2) much better armour penetration. Maybe it's irrelevant because you're not shooting armoured enemies much, but all the 'proper' sniper rifles have a better armour penetration coefficient than regular rifles. Which the SVD is for some reason, despite the 'S' in its name.

Compare to the hunting rifle. Also armour pen doesn't matter that much when you add power bonus. Much better to get a three snaps possibility even against medium armor targets. Tritanium ammo is another matter but you also get the Arasaka 4000 in that case.

Eh, I figure the plain BO LMG is about as much better as the real-world machineguns as the Smartgun is better than the BO LMG. If you compare the auto-shots for the G11 and the BO LMG, I think the BO LMG comes out on top, especially since you can trade shots for accuracy and vice versa.

 
If you want to use good MG smartgun not included you use the MG 3 or the M240. Much better than the sorry excuse of BO Lmg.

Really?

  At the moment you unlock BO stuff yes.

SMGs: The BO SMG has a massively more accurate and flexible autofire, especially due to its 3-round snap. The Macro SMG has beastly damage on top of being quite accurate. Whether an SMG is something you want to use, well, IDK... But if you do, a BO version is significantly better in the SMG role (the P90 is sorta edging into assault rifle territory).

  3 shot snap is not uncommon in smg, and yes i would consider the BO smg the biggest improvement inmediatly after unlocking.

Sniper rifles: Ditto.

Not that big of a step up between the PSG 1 and the Bo sniper rifle.

[Charly1]

Thanks everybody.

Gives me a lot to think about.

I almost never use the auto shots, so look for the best snap % and damage on rifles.

I have mainly started to use the Black Ops sniper rifle, as it usually kills in a single aimed shot at extreme ranges.

Just started gone into October and had my first mannor. It spawned right on top of my main base, and I couldnt launch any vehicle without it getting shot down, apart from my snazzy sports car. So I thought, sod it, lets send in my two best guys and see how it goes. We camped the entrance and killed over 30 Dagon cultists (and a few maids...) before anyone got any shots back off. By the sounds of things they will get a lot more difficult, so I have rediverted my research into better vehicles and weapons (I dont have any). Need to get some AT stuff too by the sounds of things.