I don't think it's that bad.
Well, as long as we both have fun.
Which one do you mean?
Sorry, that was just a non-weapon-specific remark about 'hard borders'. Should have been clearer, I suppose.
If yes, then TBH I should split the SMG category in two - one-handed machine pistols and two-handed, umm, I don't know how they're called in English - small carbines with pistol ammo.
'Small carbines with pistol ammo' are called
submachine guns in English.
I don't think the MP-5 and the Mac are very similar.
Well, no, I don't have a particular problem with those. But machine guns are somewhat more weird. The mods lumps the Minimi and the PKM together, and makes the M60 and MG 3 separate, whereas IRL the M60, MG3 and PKM are all GPMGs firing a full rifle cartridge while the Minimi is an LMG firing an intermediate round. And '2-round auto' is a somewhat strange thing on a machine gun, anyway, though not
inherently strange as a way to distinguish LMGs and GPMGs. Unfortunately, we then get the BO LMG line, which
also has 2- and 3-round snap shots while being presented as 'heavy ... variant ... of rifles', i.e. an LMG.
In a word, consistency. And I've never managed to find a good role for the machine guns that isn't done better by another weapon.
I never felt the need to "reconcile the differences", whatever that means.
That's exactly why this thing tends to come up again and again, from different people.
If you don't like it, play something else.
But I like it! People criticise games they like all the time, because they want them to be 'even better'. Surely this is not the first time you've encountered this?
So are you saying that the balance is the same or different? Or that the overall philosophy is the same but particulars differ?
The particulars are somewhat different, the intentions - especially within the confines of OXCE - appear very similar.
This sentence had nothing to do with melee specifically. Quoting my words out of context again.
What exactly are you objecting to? That while
generally borrowing a number of ideas from Piratez, you absolutely
did not do this with melee weapons? Even when there are still melee weapons in the game that are about as close to an exact copy-paste as one can have between mods with different resources?
This is absolutely the right context, unless you're trying to say that ideas about melee weapons are somehow
special and don't count.
Or you tried your damndest to make an XCF version of melee completely separate from that of Piratez, but long exposure to Dioxine means you have such a degree of design similarity that e.g. the Wrench ended up with the
exact same stats totally by coincidence?
Actually a lot of people do, but they prefer to make their own mods.
Making your own mod is a significant boost in the 'mental endurance' department. I meant specifically in the context of XCF.
...what is wrong with that?
A hand cannon should be able to consistently kill a rock or penetrate an armoured car. A non-AM rifle should only do that rarely if at all.
Besides, didn't you say yourself that all weapons being the same was boring? As far as impact on target goes, the LC with AP rounds is very much the same as the Sniper Rifle, except less accurate. Well, and you get another snap shot.
In general, the OG cannons are very unrealistic weapons that are kind of like grenade launchers, and kind of like sniper rifles, and don't really mesh that well with a mod that already has both of the above.
Why?
A lot more charge to propel the projectile. A bigger projectile. Specialised AP rounds with comparatively larger steel (or perhaps even tungster or DU, which are almost unheard of for non-AM sniper rifles) cores. Special shapes like discarding sabots that are not practical in a 7-8mm round.
Thisd is not what "cannot be reasoned with" means. What you described is how normal social interaction works...
Reasoning is absolutely not normal social interaction. You start reasoning with a non-captive or non-enthusiastic audience and they bail or doze off.
I guess I can rephrase it as "You cannot convince Solarius of something. He either convinces himself or he doesn't." Better?
Spoiler" Throwing and knives":
It's a pretty complicatd thing; I haven't read any classical treaties on fencing...
You don't need any treatises. Get cleaver and a friend to swing a dead pig at you
and see how well you do. Or find a HEMA group if you want the closest thing to first-hand we've got today. They've already done the treatise-reading (and translating,
and translating to real life) for you.
Do you mean "stuck in the body"?
Penetrate. Not bounce off. Land with the business end first.
I find it debatable - homo sapiens evolved specifically to throw stuff (rather than say, melee - that would be Neanderthals), and not to shoot with guns; on a short distance anyway.
The latter being the key words. You know what distances WKNL
competitors throw their knives at
static targets? 10 and 15 feet, or ~3 and ~5 meters, respectively. Getting a knife to reliably land in a - again,
stationary - target at 10-15 meters takes
years of practice. Records tend to be in the sub-25 meter range.
Rocks, axes and spears fly much better. Throwing knives (and shuriken) are mostly an affectation as far as being useful in combat goes.
And I advise you to try out throwing and shooting even a BB gun at 20 meters. Unless you riot for a living, there's just no comparison.
Well, do they train throwing?
Honestly,
regardless of whether they do or don't. Being a knife thrower will just push them from 'completely useless' to 'mostly useless'.
I still don't know why it's "wrong". I know plenty of games...
I also know plenty of games that do this. Even my all-time favourite tactical combat sim, Jagged Alliance 2, has ridiculous long-range insta-death knives (from stealth).
Doesn't mean I don't mentally roll my eyes at them. And most of these games have some kind of limiter on knives to bring them down a little, whereas Piratez is a larger-than-life game that runs high on Rule of Cool.
And the biggest problem here is not 'realism', it's that a) the intention seems to be 'useless for an amateur', while in-game they really aren't; and b) they scale like crazy, similar to melee weapons, while not having the same amount of drawbacks.
...also some (minimal) real experience with throwing.
So, tell me, at what distance can you stick a knife into a static target and get it to stay there, with some reliability? I also played a bit with knives when I was young and stupid, and a few meters, a tree that stands still and practicing from a set distance were the best I could manage.
Like why can't all melee weapons use the same formula? It would lead to a more consistent experience and make balancing much more straightforward.
Read my lips: there is no balancing.
Current criteria seems to be completely arbitrary and I can't see a benefit in having some weapons being less consistent than others.
Variety. IMO, the problem is not that there's a lot of variety, it's that there's no logic to the madness.
And the dodge formula means all melee weapons are inconsistent anyway.
Do we see modern militaries use throwing knifes as backups or use handguns?
Throwing knives, no. Handguns, yes, in specific roles (MPs, officers, pilots, sidearms).
...only advent of full plate armors make them lost this role.
Any kind of armour degrades cutting efficiency
a lot. Even just a padded jacket/gambeson. Swords 'lost this role' already with chain mail, never mind full-body plate. Fortunately, armour was even more expensive than swords, and chain mail was probably the hardest of all armours to make and/or wear.
And twohanders remained useful even after munition plate became a thing, they just changed from "I will cut you!" to "I will beat you with this big metal stick, and stab you when you've had enough."
Edit: Clarified a few responses.
Edit2: I'm also sorry if you felt particularly targeted, especially when your health bar is low.
I'm an argumentative asshole and I like(d) it when people hit me with similar criticisms. You engage me in an internet argument at your own peril.
Just ignore me if it causes you stress.
