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Author Topic: [SUGGESTION] Painkillers overhaul  (Read 1998 times)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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[SUGGESTION] Painkillers overhaul
« on: September 27, 2022, 04:11:45 pm »
Continued from: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10784.0.html

After the discussion linked above, as well as some off-line conversations I had with Dioxine, I would like to request a change to how painkillers impact the game in order to make them more useful. Right now their impact on the game is negligible and in my opinion stands out from the otherwise very well-designed combat system.

The idea is as follows:
1. Add a Pain stat to the mechanics. This would be a derivative of Morale, much like Stun is a derivative of Health. It works the same way, by blocking a part of the bar, except it is displayed on the far (right) end of the bar and grows towards the left as it increases. In other words, your current morale can never exceed 100 - your current Pain level.
2. Make Pain be gained normally instead of direct Morale damage when receiving damage. This value can be removed by some "painRecovery" function, which the painkiller uses by default.
3. Make possible to juggle this stat by adding it to formulas, like 'toPain' (defaulting to 1.0 being same as vanilla, afaik 1 HP damage = -1 Morale) or access to Pain stat in armour's recovery sections.

Offline Yankes

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Re: [SUGGESTION] Painkillers overhaul
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2022, 06:21:21 pm »
Question is how much is this backward compatible? (and how much Meridian would permit to break it :> )

Right now I would see adding new stats is like was mana added, it would be behind "switch" or in current case by default `toPain: 0.0`.
But this will be bit pain in ass (pun intended) to add in big mods.

Offline R1dO

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Re: [SUGGESTION] Painkillers overhaul
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2022, 07:18:28 pm »
To me there is one question that comes to mind,

In the first point you mention adding a bar from the right side that pushes back the morale bar (if big enough).

From a player perspective i feel this can be confusing.
Up to now i've learned that one only needs to worry about unwanted soldier behavior (e.g. battlefield naps) if the secondary bar approaches the length of the main bar. Or any bar approaching zero.
This proposal would mean that an additional mechanic needs to be learned (check length of an additional bar from the other side and it's impact on the main bar).

Would it not be simpler to have the 'pain' bar behave like existing secondary bars and adjust calculations accordingly (for instance based on the difference between currentMorale and pain)?

As an additional note:
During years of play ignoring painkillers has become natural. I'm pretty sure this proposal will bite me in some way, but that is not something one can hold against this proposal  ;)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [SUGGESTION] Painkillers overhaul
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2022, 09:16:33 pm »
Question is how much is this backward compatible? (and how much Meridian would permit to break it :> )
Right now I would see adding new stats is like was mana added, it would be behind "switch" or in current case by default `toPain: 0.0`.

Yes, this is exactly how I envisioned it.

But this will be bit pain in ass (pun intended) to add in big mods.

Luckily, by now my ass is made of iron. :D

To me there is one question that comes to mind,

In the first point you mention adding a bar from the right side that pushes back the morale bar (if big enough).

From a player perspective i feel this can be confusing.
(...)

Well, I don't know... To me, positioning it on the right (unlike stun) would be clearer, since pain decreases maximum morale... But I do not care that much either way.

As an additional note:
During years of play ignoring painkillers has become natural. I'm pretty sure this proposal will bite me in some way, but that is not something one can hold against this proposal  ;)

That's partially the point, no? :)

Offline krautbernd

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Re: [SUGGESTION] Painkillers overhaul
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2022, 02:30:20 pm »
Question is how much is this backward compatible? (and how much Meridian would permit to break it :> )

This. I am neutral about this unless it breaks vanilla compatibility.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [SUGGESTION] Painkillers overhaul
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2022, 03:17:46 pm »
This. I am neutral about this unless it breaks vanilla compatibility.

Of course it can't break vanilla compatibility. We're talking an alternate system, enabled with a ruleset command.

Offline Ethereal

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Re: [SUGGESTION] Painkillers overhaul
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2022, 10:04:38 am »
As I understood from what I read, the idea is good. But I have a couple of my own thoughts on this -

(1) The pain level will be displayed in the morality scale as the stun level in the health scale.
(2) Morale can top 100 if bravery is greater than 100. Bravery over 100 does not affect calculations, but simply increases the reserve of morale.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [SUGGESTION] Painkillers overhaul
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2022, 08:42:49 pm »
As I understood from what I read, the idea is good. But I have a couple of my own thoughts on this -

(1) The pain level will be displayed in the morality scale as the stun level in the health scale.
(2) Morale can top 100 if bravery is greater than 100. Bravery over 100 does not affect calculations, but simply increases the reserve of morale.

I don't think the morale should go over 100... Why would it?

But I don't have a clear model.

Offline Finnik

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Re: [SUGGESTION] Painkillers overhaul
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2022, 09:41:35 am »
I had an idea, that painkiller would reduce debuff value on stats you get on health reduce, with restoring it to normal when painkiller effect fades. Also, maybe I dont get it right, but how your model reflects pain shock (IMO it's the most important from tactical perspective)?