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Author Topic: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?  (Read 12749 times)

Offline aaronrolls

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Re: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2022, 11:25:55 pm »
I don't have a problem with these features Solarius. They sound fun how you describe them.

In my game, and it was my first time playing Xcom Files, I could have easily destroyed these cult bases if I could have found them. Maybe I didn't have the required research, I don't know.

I had gotten to a decent level of research in my opinion, maybe not for the time I was at, but I was playing at beginner level. I was taken out by something I could not fight against. I had no way of finding these bases and no way of completing any more missions. Now I have to start again. It does feel a little disheartening. If I knew where the bases were but didn't have the skill or men to beat them at least it would have felt like I deserved to lose.

How do I prevent this in the future? Up until this point I had successfully completed most missions that had shown up. I had tried to take leaders alive and research them, but maybe I could have done a better job with this.

At what point do I need to be at to stop this from happening in the future?

Perhaps I did not have the right language set, but these craft only looked like UFO's to me. If they are only cars and helicopters could they move slower and be weaker on beginner difficulty? I had humvees with cannons on them and I could not take down a single craft. One time they ran away but the other two craft that were chasing me destroyed my humvee. My dragonflies could not even outrun them. I would assume a plane is faster than a helicopter or car. 

I had an enemy base right next to mine,  I know this because whenever a craft would launch it would get chased straight away. It is kind of funny to think about. I must have been doing terribly in the game.

But I do really appreciate your work Solarius, great mod and great work. My inability to beat it should not take away from that.

Anyway, I have attached my save file.

Edit: Keep in mind that I could not do any missions for the last two months of the game. So that may be the reason for any low ratings with countries.
Edit 2: Just found out by looking at my own save file that I had 14 cult manors on my map.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2022, 11:37:43 pm by aaronrolls »

Offline Bonakva

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Re: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2022, 01:40:58 am »
Do you have an end save before you lose?

I want to look at the number of bases, location, research, maybe advise something

If the enemy base is near yours, I can advise you to provoke the enemy ships and return to your base immediately. They return to the base and do not fly out for a while

From personal experience. At the beginning of the game I use glocks, going out in shotguns. Then in mp5 and hunting rifles. Later in smg and assault rifles. Then galil and asuka, which tear up a lot, even the initial aliens.
The main thing is to get out in armord west which greatly reduce casualties during serious battles against the cult. Next tactical heavy suits that allow for almost no losses to close out the cult missions. Although I somehow manage to open up heavy trit suits at once.
What would attack the bases of the red dawn needed sniper rifles (barrett m82 or automatic sniper rifle blackops, in extreme cases rpg) against tanks. At least trophy.
To successfully fight against black lotus you need dogs or markers that reveal ninjas. Against the cult of Dagon need to fight only in the daytime because they have good night vision. Against the early enemy ships help AH8 with machine guns. Next comes the kitsune, which for a long time (in my game acts as the main force against enemy ships).

Many studies can be skipped, because they are opened immediately after the study of certain technologies, if you play for the first time it is not immediately clear. Many are simply useless because they do not make a meaningful contribution. If you have money do not be afraid to build new bases in different parts of the planet, for additional coverage of territories and construction of simple laboratories, such as bio-laboratories. They allow you to research not strong important technologies. But it should be understood that you need soldiers to repel the attacks of the cults. In my game exalt was very fond of attacking the base in north america.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2022, 02:26:51 am by Bonakva »

Offline aaronrolls

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Re: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2022, 02:39:26 am »
Thanks for the tips. I was playing on Ironman so I don't have any other saves.

I had three bases and only one of the bases had a cult manor next to it, although I could not see it. My main issue was the 13 other cult manors on the map preventing me from getting to missions. Once one of my vehicles had been spotted, it was done for. No way to run away, and a single cannon on a humvee could not take them down.

I was also broke. I must have spent 2 mill to replace destroyed vehicles, but the main monetary issue was that I made the mistake of hiring 45 scientists after I had built two labs. This brought my maintenance to about 1 mill above my funding of 2.8 mil. But I could have survived that if not for the cult manors shooting down my craft.

I'll give your tips a go in my next play through.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2022, 12:48:20 pm »
Thanks for the tips. I was playing on Ironman so I don't have any other saves.

I had three bases and only one of the bases had a cult manor next to it, although I could not see it. My main issue was the 13 other cult manors on the map preventing me from getting to missions. Once one of my vehicles had been spotted, it was done for. No way to run away, and a single cannon on a humvee could not take them down.

I was also broke. I must have spent 2 mill to replace destroyed vehicles, but the main monetary issue was that I made the mistake of hiring 45 scientists after I had built two labs. This brought my maintenance to about 1 mill above my funding of 2.8 mil. But I could have survived that if not for the cult manors shooting down my craft.

@Solarius
This needs to be adressed. You have direct evidence that the mechanic as is is badly designed and implemented. No matter how badly a players messes up, your mechanic should not prevent players from going to missions. I haven't even had this happen with regular alien bases.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2022, 01:28:43 pm by krautbernd »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2022, 01:28:31 pm »
@Solarius
This needs to be adressed. You have direct evidence that the mechanic as is is badly designed and implemented. No matter how badly a players messes up, your mechanic should not prevent players from going to missions. I haven't even had this happen with alien bases.

No, I must say that this is exactly as designed. The player had too much leeway on Geoscape and all difficulty was concentrated in tactical battles, which was a weakness.

The problem described by Aaronrolls is actually pretty trivial (if I understood correctly, it's about having a base within a manor's circle of influence) and rather easily dealt with. I'm not giving direct spoilers here, but it's a routinely encountered in Piratez and therefore well tested. This is a different mod of course, but the problem and the potential solutions are the same.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2022, 02:05:16 pm »
Given that this happened on beginner difficulty and to a first time player you might at least consider giving those people a bit of a heads up. If you don't know what's happening and you have to go to the forums to ask for advice concerning something that might be mistaken for a soft-lock implementing it this way probably isn't the smartest idea.

Offline Robotjukebox

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Re: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2022, 04:14:37 pm »
Don't think i mind the add difficulty on the geo level as it can get pretty dull after awhile and it gives the player something to work on a deal with in the early to mid game.  but i noticted that even with my main base with small radar the only way to see the jets is to encounter them (or spawn in when around a base i think also?) . maybe a eligent way is to make radar more important so you can plot ways to avoid and get a idea on where the jets bases are so you can assault it. this would also make the player focus on other bases to get a better radar coverage around diffrent continents . maybe a short range A-A vehicle like a avenger humvee as we already have the humvee? Not sure how other mods do it but i think it just need some tweaks or some more tools for the player.

Offline Chuckebaby

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Re: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2022, 05:40:04 pm »
I hope I don't sound like too much of a kiss ass here but I am very grateful for Solaris' work on these mods. I understand constructive criticism is always a way to make things better but he has put in the time and effort to create this game. And though it is a privilege to be able to ask the creator to make some modifications, there is a fine line between asking for modifications and asking an author to custom make mod's for our enjoyment, thus changing his original vision.

That's only my opinion any ways. Maybe I'm reading into this wrong but it just sounds as if there is a bit of badgering going on.
If I'm wrong, my apologies.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2022, 07:00:33 pm »
Many thanks for all the feedback, I'll keep it in mind. Perhaps there is a way to feed a bit more info to the player. Then again, most games I played back in the 90's didn't tell you shit and you were supposed to just work it out...

Offline aaronrolls

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Re: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2022, 12:20:44 am »
I believe you are mostly correct Solarius. But I my main issue was not a base next to my own. I still had two other bases to launch missions from.

What I would like to know is if it is normal to have 14 cult manors at one time on beginner difficulty in 1998? Most of my months had been a positive score.

And why could my humvee with a cannon not shoot them down?

The game being difficult is not an issue, but I did adapt my play style to the issues. I gave my humvees weapons and bought more Dragonflies (which I thought would be fast enough to outrun the enemy craft). But nothing I could do was enough.

Offline Mrvex

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Re: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2022, 10:17:57 am »
I believe you are mostly correct Solarius. But I my main issue was not a base next to my own. I still had two other bases to launch missions from.

What I would like to know is if it is normal to have 14 cult manors at one time on beginner difficulty in 1998? Most of my months had been a positive score.

And why could my humvee with a cannon not shoot them down?

The game being difficult is not an issue, but I did adapt my play style to the issues. I gave my humvees weapons and bought more Dragonflies (which I thought would be fast enough to outrun the enemy craft). But nothing I could do was enough.

Humvee could use a better weapon that isnt locked behind Promo III where you will be able to start fielding Mig fighters and your own interceptors, given minigun only works against Jets (if jet isnt too accurate and blows up your Humvee) and Cars but not Helicopters or the UFOs. Like the first craft capable of fighting 3v1 what spawns from Dagon temple was Raven so there was a giant gap of me being incapable of doing anything as everything i tried to sent went up in flames and such costs at that point were unacceptable.


Offline krautbernd

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Re: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2022, 08:30:07 pm »
Perhaps there is a way to feed a bit more info to the player. Then again, most games I played back in the 90's didn't tell you shit and you were supposed to just work it out...
No offense, but that is a pretty sh**** argument. I started out on an Amiga 1000 playing Mind Walker at an age where I barely understood english and had no manual. Let me tell you that I didn't have a great time to say the least.

If your aim is to make the mod frustrating to play by all means go ahead and do that, I certainly have no way of stopping you. All I can do is bring up arguments against it.

Otherwise maybe take a step back and ask yourself if - when confronted about something that is pretty much a softlock that player can get into by no fault of their own - replying with "oh yeah, there's a strick to it but I'm not going to tell players how to get out of it" is really the best course of action, especially taking into account that these mechanics aren't found in the original game.

You are not building a Sierra adventure here.  I'd go out on a limb and argue that if the original X-COM was created with that kind of attitude you probably wouldn't be building this mod right now, because that's not the appeal behind X-COM (at least not for me, maybe it is for others). I am aware how much effort goes into this mod and I'm grateful for the work you (and others) have put into this. I've been adding, removing or modifying parts of your mod to suit my own playstyle, sometimes paralleling or preempting changes made to the mod itself.

The thing is that I know how to make those changes - others might not. I'd argue that shoehorning in a mechanic that introduces a possible softlock that players might have no idea how to avoid or get out of is a bad idea. Witholding that information on account of players "not being hardcore enough" (yeah right, and when I went to school I had to walk uphill both ways in the freezing cold so don't you dare complain) is even worse. If the mechanic doesn't even accurately reflect what you're trying to depict, maybe turn it down a notch or restrict it to cults where it makes some kind of sense for them to have access to fighter jets?


« Last Edit: April 17, 2022, 08:36:54 pm by krautbernd »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2022, 12:25:22 am »
I think the feature as such is good, but I totally don't claim that it's finished. I am trying to play a test campaign right now (trying, because I always get sidetracked and start modding, heh), hopefully this will help.

But no, I don't think this many manors is normal. I am now in November 1997, playing on Veteran, and I only have one manor.

Offline aaronrolls

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Re: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2022, 06:35:59 am »
Maybe it is a bug on the beginner difficulty setting. I'm playing again but on veteran as well. I'll see how I go.

A did want to point out that on veteran there are more enemies and that makes it much easier to have a positive score at the end of the month.

On beginner I was struggling to have above 300. On veteran I can get 1000+ without much difficulty.

I'm sure veteran difficulty will bite me in the ass later down the line, but in the beginning it is easier.

Offline Bonakva

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Re: Xcom Files: Why so many UFOs?
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2022, 10:20:02 am »
I play on a veteran. And I haven't seen that many bases in 1 save either. Although I very often leave bases on purpose....