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Author Topic: ARR: Reject The Market (M3)  (Read 2315 times)

Offline Yugian

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ARR: Reject The Market (M3)
« on: April 05, 2022, 04:32:35 am »
Allo, Im Yugian. happen to be a streamer.

So back in December, I finished an X-Files "Manufacturing only" run, and decided to have some fun and try to do a No Manufacturing run of X-Piratez. Several months later, I finished that very same run. It was... Painful, to say the least. I failed the first attempt, and my second attempt was a run that lasted about ~230 hours. This was done in M3, but this is my successful declaration of achievement.

The Rules of the Run were simple.
Obviously, No Store for Anything. The Exception was Runts, because I cant recruit them in the Game proper, and running 10 the entire game was Misery. (There was one exception made to this rule later on.) Everything else (Including Brainers!) Had to be looted thick and thin.

I happened to also be playing Reject the Power at the time, because I Thought it'd be 'Only possible' on that, given I heard you got Unique craft. I was... Kind of right? As of now, I still think its the preferred way to do it, given how robust its start is.
Spoiler:
I sadly did not get the Knights Of Cydonia.

Whilst my Information is outdated, given we're on M5 now, I would not mind sharing my thoughts and speak of painful experiences.

How it Actually went.
To beat the game without using Cloaking Devices- You have to get
Spoiler:
Doctor X.
The only way to follow down that quest line, is that you need a Grav Ball outfit, and you need a single person craft. You cannot make one, and the Only Grav Ball outfit you can loot... Is after
Spoiler:
The Duel with Doctor X.
For the sake of completing the game, I allowed myself those purchases.

I also Scummed like a bastard. Enough was in the air that it was still a challenge, but I made a few personal concessions to make sure that we could progress (Air Game is Miserable with Fausts and Battle Tanks.)

I also Cheated for the Viewer Experience. To my knowledge of M3, you can only gather
Spoiler:
Chrono Prisms from the Void.
, Which you need for the
Spoiler:
Titor.
The mission to get them *Does not* reliably spawn every month, and It was getting incredibly frustrating/boring to watch the run stall out because I lacked that one item. So I gave myself that one resource in enough degree to assemble our final craft. Justification being I *Could* have done it if I grinded out long enough, and we were just waiting for THOSE missions specifically. Add about 3~4 Years to that end total and you would have an accurate count of my end year.

I did not get Mk.803's sadly. So I had to do Cydonia in
Spoiler:
Zortirum, Carbon and Centurion Armors. We didnt get to bring the Tank in the Titor, and that fucking sucked. Especially given for some reason, The Titor Spawns enemies right next to you- So we were out in the open, and always had two hovertanks next to our spawn.
. That took a few retries.

Hit me up with questions. Im happy to take them, because This run took so long, my ARR has slightly faded from memory, and Answering questions will do me far better in jogging my memory. :,D

Offline Iazo

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Re: ARR: Reject The Market (M3)
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2022, 12:32:24 pm »
Why do you say that Cydonia requires cloaking? As far as I know, the J Titor project does not require it. Is there any such block on the way?

Offline Yugian

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Re: ARR: Reject The Market (M3)
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2022, 09:30:47 pm »
Why do you say that Cydonia requires cloaking? As far as I know, the J Titor project does not require it. Is there any such block on the way?

No, Actually, I meant to specifically highlight that as how you *Get around* using a Cloaking device. Sorry :,D

Though, there's arguably some blocks in the way. Faust's for Heavy Freighters, Battle Tanks for Viper Fighters. With Faust's, You need about 3 craft, armed with dual Plasma Spitters with the best pilots you've got to shoot it down. Expect to lose one. If the dice are bad, I've lost entire squadrons. I usually used 4, and had one as bait so i didnt lose named characters.

Tanks, you put a Lascannons on all of them, stick them in the path of the Viper Fighter- and basically just... Wait. Accurate Pilots are needed here. They're beefy enough that they dont need to dodge. Just hit.

Also, as Mentioned
Spoiler:
Chrono Prisms.
The Grind was *Real*, and I didnt suffer through it. Thats honestly the most restrictive part of Titor. By the time you "realistically" could get that thing running, you could have built
Spoiler:
the Conqueror
and gotten far more tech in the process. And this is assuming your not being bonkers like I was and could take advantage of
Spoiler:
VIP Mercenary Captures. I dont even think that the Marketplace of Wishing allows you to buy Chronos. At least in M3.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2022, 09:36:51 pm by Yugian »

Offline Interdictor

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Re: ARR: Reject The Market (M3)
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2022, 04:10:22 am »
First of all I would like to express my admiration of your quite impressive experiment. I'm used to rely on black market purchases and feeling sorry for many cool craftable stuff remained unused by this way at least on early game stage. Also since I've loosed few times quite early because of infamy loss caused by Ninja bases so I have a several of questions about early game stage I'm actually stuck on for years already.

1. What early game aircraft layout do you get and use especially while rejecting the power, ie no-codex play?
2. What gear and tactics you've used to eliminate first Ninja bases and their auto turrets in particular?
3. Have you used primitive / stone age weapon and what for?

Thank you!

Offline Yugian

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Re: ARR: Reject The Market (M3)
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2022, 09:16:27 pm »
Hey Incendictor! Understandable, Ninjas are a bastard. To answer your questions in no Specific order-

Quote
3. Have you used primitive / stone age weapon and what for?

First question that immediately stuck out to me. *Yes*. I used just about every throwing weapon early on, and still was using Bows and Javelins well into the later game. Sharp Sticks are actually the best ranged weapon to start with, before your gals know how to shoot a gun- and Javelins NEVER fall out of use for undersea missions. A sufficiently strong Gal with a trained throwing arm, is almost as deadly as a warrior with a melee weapon. Plus, before you can print Ammo, Throwing weapons are easily and readily available. Combine it with the Beast Rider Armor (Which I had ready access to in Turan) and you have a rapid fire machine gun of a gal, throwing out a dervish of death.

Plus, in your early game, throwing weapons out range most units vision in the dark. So you can safely skirmish before engaging properly, keeping your precious manpower out of harms way (And thus injuries you cannot afford in the early game in this challenge!).

Spoiler:
Plus, you will be forced to use them. Primal Hunts are how you are crowned in No-Codex. So instead of it being a fun thing the Thebians just have you do, you win your crown in combat. Make sure to keep a stockpile.

Quote
2. What gear and tactics you've used to eliminate first Ninja bases and their auto turrets in particular?

This is going to suck. And firmly it sucks. I would recommend the best heavy armor you can get your hands on. Chain *Should* Be safe? Plate is ideal, and everything is just continuing steps down on comfort. Like it or not, The Ninjas *are* going to get a leg up on you. You simply dont keep pace with them fast enough on Reject the Market. Airfields *Will* turn into Fortresses, short of extensive scumming. For fortresses, I dealt with my first one in Guardian Armor (And that was honestly pretty early), whilst the second one I did in Assault Armor. Flying makes a massive difference.

For an Outpost, its ALL where you land in this challenge. If you can land out of the way of the southern approach, out of the way of the LoS of the Auto Turrets, you can bombard the ever loving piss out of them with Chemical weapons. Without Chem 'Nades and Chem Balls (Cannon Ammo), the Endeavor borders on hopeless. Bring Gas Masks to deal with the gas attacks ninjas love oh so much, and bring your best. Your going to get hurt, and your going to have a rough time regardless. The Minigun turrets can be sufficiently sniped by a good firearm, and thus shouldn't be too bad. You can bring breaching tools to get in the side bunkers and avoid the main entrance. And DO NOT FORGET THE AYE-PHONES. I did this FREQUENTLY like an Idiot. This counters Ninja Stealth hard.

For the Auto Turrets, Your primary strategy is throwing bombs and Arcing attacks from out of LoS. You need to sufficiently weaken them before you hit them with the strongest missile launchers and other blast weapons you have. I was lucky enough to roll a Mortar for this purpose, so I could bring purpose built Mortar shells for this- but realistically, your hitting them with Chemical Grenades and Chem Cannon Shots. Thankfully, your hitting it 4 times if you place it right, because its a 2x2 object. You should be able to slag its under armor in about ~4 hits. After that, its just destroying it. If you Run out/trying to conserve on resources- the Ninjas in the Outpost *Specifically* come with EMP Grenades. These are effective weapons against the Auto Turrets, and can kill without the Chem Weapons- but by god does it take a few and is unreliable. Use the Chem Grenades first, then knock 'em out with the second punch. This should be sufficient before you pull out turbo Rocket launchers with stupid amounts of penetration or Lascannons with supped up power packs.

Also, for a Double Whammy-

Quote
Also since I've loosed few times quite early because of infamy loss caused by Ninja bases

Remember, You only lose the game if you get Two bad months in a row. Also consider that how much you sink your value that month doesn't matter. -700 is the same as -10000. If you suspect your about to get a bad month, take that time to recover and not feel under pressure to answer the phone for everything. Dedicate your next month to researching your 'Petty' researches. Your Data Disks, Your Gun Almanacs, etc. Each of those Researches are worth points, and enough of them can float your month alone. Though obviously, continue to do your missions too. If you run out of those, use Interrogations. This can *Greatly* help you recover from bad months, and help you get past Ninja point bombs when they happen. And they will.

Quote
1. What early game aircraft layout do you get and use especially while rejecting the power, ie no-codex play?

The Unique craft you get in a Reject the Power is the Dutchman. And in my Run, I used her until she broke and died. From the second I got her, to the last missions, she was in service. She's very good, but you are limited in the fact she's slow as a brick (No Ninja Terrors with her!) and that she'll ever fit 11 worth of 'crew' on her. This becomes a Significant factor later on- and creates a fighting style revolving around "The Elite Few." Certainly a boost to your Initial fighting capabilities compared to the Air Bus, but it doesn't get much better then that. It also has a nasty tenancy of catching explodium and blowing up gear if its hit funny. THAT certainly got my goat more the once or twice. Linked pictures in the attachments, but the top serves as a 'Gun Port' in which you can clear your breach (Or just set up overwatch). Note the enemies CAN see you, and will shoot you up there. But keeping a few snipers is ideal and can easily help supplement an advancing force. Downstairs, you have breach doors wide enough to allow 2x2's. The SS down there is where your gear is, so its nicely centralized. The Craft is well suited to allowing a lot of angles of coverage on the way out, so you can easily have 360 coverage of your drop and tagging people from all directions (Provided your landing isnt ass). But, as mentioned, its slow. So you cant go assault a base with this. You instead will be using

The Raiding Party. For awhile, I used the Airbus as my Infiltration craft, but this replaces the Airbus, along with serves as your gatecrasher as it is undetectable
Spoiler:
And one of your two options for Primal Hunts.
You basically are just 3 2x2 squares, can outfit twelve and your standing out in the open. Dont use this for anything other then specialized assaults, because your letting your boobs flap out in the wind- with no protection whatsoever. But For Pre-deploy missions and assaulting bases- it is Perfect. This is, ironically enough, just about every infiltration mission- which is what you'd want to use this for Anyway.

Offline Interdictor

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Re: ARR: Reject The Market (M3)
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2022, 02:20:00 am »
Thank you for detailed answer it will helps me a lot.

Well I know about Dutchman its granted for free by event and impossible to overlook. But what about fighter crafts? Following the rule of challenge it seems not easy to get and arm something especially early game.

Offline Yugian

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Re: ARR: Reject The Market (M3)
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2022, 04:24:16 am »
Its awful. The only "Real" Fighter Craft you will ever get is the Faust. The Little bird just doesn't catch anything, and is only useful to clean up Rat Trash. I do not remember having much luck with the Necroplane. I might have caught something once or twice? But I remember it could barely punch at its weight class and I abandoned it pretty quickly when I could. The Faust is the "First" and Last real interceptor you'll ever get.

Thankfully, the Faust is Robust, and when your playing this challenge, you'll learn what its capable of pretty quickly, and what skill of pilots you'll need to fight what craft. Plus, it fits plasma spitters- which makes it capable of shooting down the Heavy Transporter you need for Higher Studies. Barely. Iin a Pack.

But provided you don't try to dive Fighter craft, the Faust should be able to handle whatever it can catch. Outfitting it isn't awful either- by the time you get your Fausts up and running, you will have raided landed UFO's (Or Should have), and Light Craft Weapons shouldn't be too far off with effort. You'll be slow to ramp up its firepower, but its perfectly usable in between 'arming' periods. I was able to have Gauss Cannons Equipped for a healthy portion of my run, before i could manufacture them.

How well you can outfit your Fausts is mostly dependent on your map Knowledge. Use of the Spy Zeppelin, Scouting Party and your Radar coverage will let you spot landers to tackle, or intercept craft going 'slow'.

Later on in the game, you do "Technically" get another interceptor, but it has only one primary purpose, Which are the Battle Tanks. They are vital for this challenge because they're the only craft you have that can reliably win a fight with a Viper Fighter. (Bombers are too fast for Fausts, even at their slowest.) You get a pack of them and stand in the line of the Fighters flight path- and with tricky Manipulation, you can fly them into your pack and thus- take them down.

Beyond M3 though
Spoiler:
You can get Hyperjets from fighting Ninjas. the Raptor is an alternative option, and a strict upgrade to the Necroplane. Its Faster then the Faust by a substantial margin, and armed with a Dive Bomb and Missile slot- and could arguably mean you could shoot down craft the Faust can only dream of catching. I personally cant attest to any successes here, as this was after my time, but could be an interesting avenue to explore if you get access to it.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 04:30:50 am by Yugian »

Offline Blood Raven 117

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Re: ARR: Reject The Market (M3)
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2022, 08:52:46 pm »
I dub this challenge "Embracing Marxism".

Honestly this challenge sounds like a cool hassle. Relying on whatever you can loot, scrounge, or produce yourself. Makes me hope that in later game versions we can get more manufacturing buildings to become a shipyard and get events like, "Blackmarch has made a request to buy ten fausts" Or whatever.

Offline Iazo

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Re: ARR: Reject The Market (M3)
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2022, 05:44:38 pm »
Since this ARR was made, a new interceptor was made available for this playstyle, the raptor, which is CONSIDERABLY better than Faust.

Offline Yugian

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Re: ARR: Reject The Market (M3)
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2022, 05:39:16 am »
I dub this challenge "Embracing Marxism".

Honestly this challenge sounds like a cool hassle. Relying on whatever you can loot, scrounge, or produce yourself. Makes me hope that in later game versions we can get more manufacturing buildings to become a shipyard and get events like, "Blackmarch has made a request to buy ten fausts" Or whatever.

Seize the means of production for all the Rum!

Honestly, that'd be pretty damn cool. Anything that can reduce the 'Tedium' would honestly make this challenge more bearable, and being able to roll for random high tier resources for fulfilling contracts and whatnot (Or get cloaking devices), would be great.

Since this ARR was made, a new interceptor was made available for this playstyle, the raptor, which is CONSIDERABLY better than Faust.

Yeah, Though I am a little concerned with its weapons loadout. With a Divebomb/Missile slot, you might not have the payload needed to drop some of the critical ships. On the other hand, Nukes. I imagine if I remathed some values, theres easily a x4 combination that can shoot down anything we need really.