Make ufos smarter an tougher

[Ran]

While the game is really fun to play in the current state, I think UFOs are way too weak and harmless.

Basically they ignore whatever you do and neither try to evade nor attack your craft.
Even a single Interceptor with Stingrays can (and will) safely shoot down everything smaller than a supply ship and with several Interceptors, avalanches and some luck even a battleship will eventually go down.
So while I really like interceptors (I'd even say they are my favorite item in the game and a masterpiece of human technology), you should need a bit more to take out every alien spaceship equipped with far more superior technology.
I think this currently makes Firestorm and Lightning nearly obsolete. Sure, Avengers are much more convenient but except for going to mars you don't really need them either if you have enough bases (which are easily affordable since it's a no-brainer to shoot down and raid masses of UFOs with a handful of Interceptors).

As far as I remember this also was the case in the original game but I'd really appreciate a possibility in options.cfg to make UFOs smarter and stronger.
Maybe things can also change with game difficulty - the more difficult the game, the smarter the aliens and UFOs. This would make it much more fun to play on higher levels of difficulty.

.)small UFOs should try to get away (they are all faster than the interceptor anyway)

.)large UFOs could either ignore you and speed away continuing their mission or actively attack you even if you try to hold them at a distance

.)a great idea would be a new small UFO type as escort for otherwise defenseless small-med UFOs carrying out missions.
Should be very fast and aggressive so you cannot evade it and go after the UFO it is meant to protect.
Armed in a way to likely damage but not destroy an interceptor and not too hard to shoot down. It's main job is to distract attention from the mission-UFO and make you waste ammunition. Equipping it with little crew with only basic weaponry would mean only very little value if recovered.  This would force you to send multiple crafts to prevent an alien mission from being carried out and to raid valuable artifacts.

.)retaliate on Skyranger while on the way to crash site (alien rescue mission), this would force you to send Interceptors to escort your Skyranger

.)aliens should evaluate their missions - if you constantly get shot down in one region try to avoid it and go to another, if successful intensify your presence. If you have to send small UFOS to dangerous places give them escort.
In my current game, alien activity is largely limited to the regions around my 2 bases while the rest of the globe is neglected (mid-game on veteran).
This is absurd as the aliens are digging their own grave by supplying me with loads of items and money from easily downed crafts.



So much for my Ideas, I'd love to help but I've no clue about coding and my drawing skills are somewhat limited. If there's anything I can do except hunting for bugs let me know!

[54x]

Yeah in the current state of the game small UFOs are essentially piñatas. This isn't necessarily a bad thing in the early months, but later on we should have better-armed small UFOs.

I had a few ideas for a more interesting interception metagame: (These are possibly better suited to a mod as while they're definitely an improvement it's a very large change that not everyone might like)

a) New small fighter craft.
1) The escort, a fast and extremely manoeuvrable small craft equipped with a plasma cannon. This craft would often dodge beam or cannon shots and manage to pepper your crafts a bit from range, but be reliably hit and downed by a single fusion bomb. This would essentially be an HP check for interceptors with plasma weapons, and an incentive to equip fusion bombs. It shouldn't be possible to disengage this craft unless you're running an avenger. This sholud make running interceptors less viable in endgame, too.
2) The bomber, a (relatively) slow craft that has a medium-range fusion bomb. You'd need to pick this one off from range in order to kill it, but you can easily outrun it.

b) A new "escort" mission that makes a second UFO play tag-along until an XCOM craft comes within radar range, in which case it will close and aggressively engage nearby craft. Escorts will continue to fly around landed UFOs.

c) A new "air superiority" mission that makes a UFO patrol a suspected area of XCOM activity, as a lower-stakes version of the alien retaliation mission. As per escort behaviour, air superiority UFOs will close and aggressively engage nearby craft, however they may not as reliably detect them as escorts.

d) Unarmed craft to be escorted, who attempt to land near populated areas to stop interceptors from damaging them and to give any escorts time to catch the intercepting craft. In order to implement this...
1) Disarm the supply ship and make a new UFO with a similar offensive/defensive function called the Cruiser to act as a large escort/air superiority UFO.
2) Create a second Very Large UFO  (Superlifter? *shrug*) to set up alien bases or occasionally to run supply missions if supply ships can't get through to the alien base.

e) Implement some cool geoscape AI so that on higher difficulties the aliens patrol your main base for air superiority while other UFOs are escorting their mothership to sign a pact with an unhappy country / their superlifter to set up a new alien base.

[Ran]

Yes, piñata is the perfect term for the poor small UFOs! 

I read your posts about the interception game, sounds really interesting.

A bomber-UFO would really be a good idea since currently (and in the original) your base is completely immune from battleship attacks once you have a couple of fusion ball defense facilities.
Maybe it could damage/destroy random facilities at your base during a flyover without triggering defenses. So if you don't shoot it down with your crafts it will seriously damage your base - and clear the way for further battleships to land.

[hstech]

A bomber-UFO would really be a good idea since currently (and in the original) your base is completely immune from battleship attacks once you have a couple of fusion ball defense facilities.
Maybe it could damage/destroy random facilities at your base during a flyover without triggering defenses. So if you don't shoot it down with your crafts it will seriously damage your base - and clear the way for further battleships to land.

Your base is completely immune from battleship attacks once you get Hyperwave Decoder in it and you shoot down any and all "piñata" that dare to try to do Alien Retaliation around it. You don't need any Fushion Balls to defend it. The Hyperwave Decoder has 100% chance of detection, making it impossible for them to search for your base without you knowing that they are doing exactly that. And if you design it for defendability, you don't even have (or don't want ) to bother with shooting down the "piñata" and rather have the aliens arrive and bring with their supplies directly to your General Stores

The bomber is good idea, I would suggest adding detection capabilities to it so it can detect your base. And give it a decent damage resistance so you need a lot of rockets to kill it and weapon with range larger than Plasma Cannon but smaller than Avalanche. This would give the player to use Avalanche alongside Plasma Cannon.

[Danny]

Bombers should only trigger a 25% to 50% of your base defences and grav shields will not work on them.
And your base defences have less accuracy as well.

Bombers will disable between 1 - 4 mostly random base modules for 10 days. It will also trigger 2 Battleship attacks within 10 days (unless the first one hits).


Also Hyperwave decoders should have only 80% to 90% detection rate. And add a "stealth value" to scout ships in late game

[Ran]

Sorry I have to whine about this issue again, but it's one of the few things in this wonderful game that really bothers me.

Even on superhuman where aliens are pretty tough in battlescape, UFOs other than the battleship still are completely defenseless and can easily be shot down with a single interceptor without inflicting damage or escaping (very rarely happens).

Even worse they often enter the atmosphere on the other side of the world as their target area is supposed to be, so you have both high chance of detecting them and plenty of time to send an interceptor after them. As they slow down in the target area, even a slow craft is sufficient.
For beginners that sure is convenient but it gets boring over time, It also makes the Firestorm completely useless.


My suggestions:
.)UFOs should either attack or try to flee.
Could be a probability function of difficulty level x dogfight time modified by UFO class. Smaller ones are more likely to flee, larger ones would rather attack.

.) Shorten the time an UFO spends before landing  with increased difficulty. This forces you to use faster crafts and leads to successful alien missions you cannot prevent.

Maybe we could add this optional behavior as in sneaky AI?

[Solarius Scorch]

Even on superhuman where aliens are pretty tough in battlescape, UFOs other than the battleship still are completely defenseless and can easily be shot down with a single interceptor without inflicting damage or escaping (very rarely happens).

Just to clarify: you mean interceptors with late-game armament, yes? Because the most I can manage with starting weapons is shooting down a Terror Ship using two Interceptors, and likely losing one.

I like your ideas though, especially the first one. UFOs should behave more intelligently in battle, even if it makes air combat more frustrating (intercept - UFO outrunning Interceptor; intercept - UFO outrunning Interceptor; intercept - UFO outrunning Interceptor).

And regarding the entire thread: looks like air combat mechanics from UFO: Extraterrestrials would match your desires best (no air combat minigame, just RTS-styled fighter management). Or stealing the air combat minigame from the Xenonauts.

[Align]

Avalanche missiles outrange everything except Battleships, so you don't even need lasers to be completely safe when shooting down UFOs in vanilla XCOM.

[Ran]

Yes, that's the point.
An Interceptor with Avalanche Missiles is invincible except for Battleships.
Now if smaller UFOs could do just a minimal damage to the interceptor it would not be able to refuel/rearm until repaired which would balance the game. Or they could just outrun it with their higher top speed.

[Solarius Scorch]

Not that I'm disagreeing, but how on Earth do you want to down a Supply Ship or a Terror Ship with six Avalanches?
I understand you may have five planes in a base and send them all, but this is hardly a normal situation.

[Ran]

Well, having only one Interceptor isn't a normal situation either
You start with two interceptors, give them avalanches and they can take down a terror ship without problems, providing they get to it in time.

When playing on higher difficulty levels you'll be researching Heavy Plasma in January and end up with plasma beams to take down the February terror ship anyway.  From there a single interceptor can deal with anything other than a battleship.

[Solarius Scorch]

Well, I said six Avalanches, not three Avalanches. That's because I consider two Interceptors to be the norm.

Researching Plasma Cannons in January? What?! I'm in August now and I only just researched Plasma Rifle, skipping the Plasma Pistol. I have 30 scientists, working at 5 projects simultaneously (I form scientific divisions: biology, energy, equipment, interrogation and materials, or something similar). Sure, if I grind, hire 50 (or 100) scientists and throw them all on plasma research, it'd be a lot faster, but it would be unrealistic and definitely not fun.

The reason I'm typing all this down is not for the argument itself, I just want to avoid a mind track which would lead us to a point where the only viable choice is to disregard everything else and focus 100% of resources on air combat. Destroying players' choice would be a horrible decision.

Having said that, I would very much like the UFOs to behave more intelligently, try to escape faster or counter-attack. I would actually like if they attacked the Skyranger, and maybe even Interceptors.

[Danny]

Non-combat UFO's:
Small scout - slightly faster then interceptors, but no weapons.
Medium scout - slightly faster then interceptors, cannon range and damage
Large scout - twice as fast as the smaller scouts, long range but same damage
Abductor, Harvester and Supply ship - twice as fast as large scout but no weapons

Combat UFO's:
Terrorship - same speed as lightning, plasma cannon range but laser cannon damage (trooper carrier)
*NEW* Destroyer - Slightly slower as Avenger, Fusion ball range and Plasma cannon damage. Air superiority, shows up (and replaces for a while scouts) when you down a lot of UFO's very easily.
Battleship - As is now.
*NEW* Bomber - Half speed of Battleship, Laser cannon range and damage (in the air). Shows up when Battleships keep getting shot down by your defences and takes them out for a few days. NEVER LANDS!