civilians in base defense missions?

[Daiky]

If you throw a big guy on a sectoid, the sectoid sure will be unconscious

(what's up with all this forum acticivity, is everybody like me at work and bored because it's calm and their boss is on vacation? :p)

[Volutar]

How'd you know? My boss indeed is on vacation But it's only a coincidence.

But really, crowd management in TBS (particular in XCOM) is an unresolved issue. And as for me, I really avoid of big groups just because I know I will quickly quit when I'd have to move alot of people one by one number of turns - that simply fills me with feeling that I'm wasting my time.

[Daiky]

Maybe if you make an option to make one or more units follow another unit, which in that case becomes a kind of team leader. You then give orders to that team leader and the whole team moves with him.

[Startling]

Dont forget the lore of the game, where the base is actually evacuated before the alien battleship arrives, which is IMO a fairly good approach to the problem. You would not leave your 50 y.o. 4-eyed scientist to deal with aliens

[moriarty]

that "lore" could just as well be called a "bad excuse"... I would say that it should be possible to evacuate the base (at the cost of losing research progress etc.) "manually" (by clicking a big red button, that is), but there are those moments where a battleship attacks your base without being discovered by your radar at all. how do you evacuate these many people when you don't have time? it's just not believable.

[Startling]

By lore I mean the multiple fan fiction books and the overall perception of the situation. It would be impossible not to detect a huge flying disk screaming at max speed and low alt towards your base. And why would you loose research? its not like scientists forget what they were doing when they get evacuated for a few hours (unless the lab is destroyed, but then only the samples will really be in danger, correct scientific research is stored externally and documented in detail). And then if you account for the fact that the base is heavily militarised with correct procedures for evacuation and EXPECTATION that they might be engaged.

Not like your average fire alarm test at the workplace

[moriarty]

correct scientific research is stored externally

normally and from a grown-up logical point of view I would like to agree wholeheartedly. but seriously, have you ever worked in research? if there is one thing scientists don't do, it's external backups. because they are terribly frightened of other scientists claiming their research for their own and becoming all famous and rich instead of the original scientist   and I would guess working for a super-secret organization doesn't improve that

I agree that fast evac should be possible, but not within seconds or even minutes. and the base will not be able to detect every incoming UFO early enough.

also, in game development terms, I think it would be a nice addition creating even more tactical depth. don't you think so?

[Startling]

Well, yes I do actually work in research, and there is a protocol associated with everything you do Its very different between universities, where profs sometimes do keep it all to themselves, and opposite, when you work for a corporation, where your work is their money, and, oh, they don't want to loose any of that.

To be quite frank, I do not see how would civilians be helpful in base defence mission. Or well, I do see how they can be, but I do not see great benefits of it, versus the drawbacks of having more units to mange or account for, risking loosing your untrained 60k investment, and general lack of plausibility.

If we were to continue the line of thought of similar events during the game, what I would be thrilled to see are various factions that are with/against XCOM on the missions. Why terror missions never have LAPD/etc officers that are armed? Why facilities that you go to defend never have their own security staff or a guard at least? Why not have military be present alongside in some of the missions, where they are progressing in organised manner, as your XCOM soldiers, but just with earth equipment?

Of course all of these would be AI controlled.

[moriarty]

I see your point about doing research for corporations. I've only seen it in a University setting

The point about the civilians is not that they would be helpful, but that they would need to be protected - like in a terror mission. It's supposed to make the game a little harder, even, I guess... I think it would be interesting at the least

yes, the point about third-party armed personnel on the battlefield is something that Luke83 is heavily advertising, and I agree that it would be really cool. (imagine the little sectoid mind-controlling the security guy with the rocket launcher, though... )

anything that populates the battlefield a bit more would be nice IMHO.

[Startling]

The overall issue is what it would turn into. Most bases are based on chokes and good layouts. You would just run all of the stuff to the side of the base behind the xcom soldiers, if you get all of the soldiers killed, you would start using the staff to defend. The likelyhood of loosing any of the staff before xcom dies is quite low.

If the staff becomes AI controlled, you get the whole pain of dealing with retarded AI, whether the actual staff would be trained to evacuate the base in organised manner. This is not a market street that you are trying to defend, but a high-security military base...