RND in research time

[Meridian]

It's filtering, not sorting.

[Solarius Scorch]

I also agree that filtering is a good idea, but shouldn't be the only way to access this information. I think Dioxine's idea with adding a line in the project window should be enough, if feasible. My initial idea was an additional text column on the list, buy it'd never fit...

[Arthanor]

It's filtering, not sorting.

Right, I edited my post. They are functionally the same though,  you can filter for trivial first, then easy, once you don't have any trivial ones etc. The only differences are that sorting would display everything at once and order things within categories, neither of which are really needed.

So in short: I think this is a useful feature when you don't know a tech tree and don't want to spoil it.

[Dioxine]

If everyone but me finds it useful, I guess it is useful But I'd like that extra line in the topic window too - I think it's ellegant.

[Solarius Scorch]

So in short: I think this is a useful feature when you don't know a tech tree and don't want to spoil it.

This.

While the tech tree viewer is great for debugging, I really don't like the fact a player can access it. Hey, maybe make it a debug mode function?

[Starving Poet]

Agreed - I'm really trying to prevent myself from using the viewer outside of how many prisoners I need to keep of each type - and even that irks me a little bit.

[Meridian]

Turning on debug mode is a matter of pressing one hotkey... who can't resist now, won't be able to resist anyway.

In my opinion, it's a useful functionality and only very remotely a cheat... modders even provide the tech trees with their mods (e.g. FMP or Hardmode). Many games come with techtreeviewer built in (e.g. Civilization).

[Solarius Scorch]

Turning on debug mode is a matter of pressing one hotkey... who can't resist now, won't be able to resist anyway.

I don't think it's true at all. That's like saying that seeing all map is just a shortcut away, so who wouldn't do it, right? And I think the temptation is much greater in battle.
Also remember that most players don't even know bug mode exists.

In my opinion, it's a useful functionality and only very remotely a cheat... modders even provide the tech trees with their mods (e.g. FMP or Hardmode). Many games come with techtreeviewer built in (e.g. Civilization).

Yes, but Civ is a different type of game; it doesn't have the adventuring component that Piratez has. Civ wasn't designed to block the info from the player, while X-com kinda was, even if at this year we all know the tree by heart.
I think it should at least be enabled by an option and adequately described.

EDIT: If the viewer was limited to only show the next level of researches (directly descending from a tech you have), I'd be perfectly okay with it.

[Meridian]

I think it should at least be enabled by an option and adequately described.

That's planned, after oxce+ grows up from its "proto" stage, all visible/tangible non-vanilla stuff will be behind an option or ruleset.
Maybe as early as Q1 2017.

[Solarius Scorch]

That's planned, after oxce+ grows up from its "proto" stage, all visible/tangible non-vanilla stuff will be behind an option or ruleset.
Maybe as early as Q1 2017.

Thanks, that sounds very reasonable.

[Eddie]

I have a suggestion for the research tree, to make it a bit more "fool proof". Items that need a special facility to be produced (for example workshop) should need this facility as a requirement for their research. This would mean that for example Guerilla outfit now needs workshop researched before it is unlocked for research.

[Dioxine]

Been there, done that, but it's not always as simple as it sounds; for example, to do it for Guerilla, it would be neccessary to make a workaround, since it's dependant on Kevlar Weaving OR Spartan Booty, and OR cannot be used in conjuction with AND. So <(Weaving OR Spartan) AND Workshop> is too complex a clause for this engine to implement easily. Also, not having the facility spurns players interest for having it. I'll look for items that fit the bill. Or better yet, you could prepare a list of suggestions

[Arthanor]

With a bit more back end clutter, you can have:
- Kevlar Clothing (free, hidden tech) depend on Kevlar Weaving OR Spartan Body
- Guerilla outfit depend on Kevlar Clothing AND Workshop

The player won't know that it's not "(A or B) and C", and it'll prevent odd occurrences. That being said, it's totally understandable that the brainers can come up with a prototype armor while the runts are just like: "Nope, no way right now we can produce this on any usable scale" since they're lacking the tools. You don't need to be able to mass produce something to come up with the idea of it.

[Dioxine]

I just don't like the back end clutter, you know. Takes time and energy.

[Arthanor]

Fully understand that, especially with Piratez's "tech forest". That's why I gave an example of why it could make sense to work the way it currently does