Author Topic: UFO Battlescape Damage not working as remembered  (Read 12817 times)

Offline volutar

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Re: UFO Battlescape Damage not working as remembered
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2014, 09:37:22 am »
You will regret that you dare to doubt in OpenXcom.

redv, you've stated cases 6-10 as possible in OpenXcom.
You can make debug=true in options, use Ctrl+D to reveal whole map, and make a save and put in in here. I challenge you.

As for my arguments there are screens of all possible scenarios with MINUMUM damage of 180.
Even with 180 damage neighbour power source also got destroyed. Always. And destroyed power source can't cause another explosion. So there's no possibility of two neighbour power sources are destroyed.

Capish? ;)

Before posting these complains like "it was different" please gather at least some evidences, except for your speculations. Otherwise your words are dramatically losing any weight for any further "reports".

In the attachments - 4 possible scenarios in OXC with damage 180. And one with damage 220, to prove that damage won't go to second neighbour (10 tiles limit stops it). Colored mosaic is damage field taken with special debug tool.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 11:14:30 am by volutar »

Offline redv

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Re: UFO Battlescape Damage not working as remembered
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2014, 02:36:22 pm »
You will regret that you dare to doubt in OpenXcom.
Glad to see you again, volutar :)

redv, you've stated cases 6-10 as possible in OpenXcom.
You can make debug=true in options, use Ctrl+D to reveal whole map, and make a save and put in in here. I challenge you.
As i understand, Warboy also stated that cases 6-10 is possible in OpenXcom. But he don't want talk clear about his position. I see a contradiction in his words.
Before we can continue, i need to understand your position about battlegenerator.

If some PSs left, then this PSs always filled by elerium in vanilla Xcom. Is it true or not?

In OXC possible situation, when a PS left, but hasn't elerium. Is it true or not?

Calculation of explosion differs between OXC and vanilla Xcom. Is it true or not?

Offline volutar

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Re: UFO Battlescape Damage not working as remembered
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2014, 03:00:33 pm »
As i understand, Warboy also stated that cases 6-10 is possible in OpenXcom. But he don't want talk clear about his position. I see a contradiction in his words.
I see no contradictions. The code of explosion damage was written by me and Warboy didn't deeply investigate this matter as I did (by making dozens of tests, dumping explosion field data, comparing and tuning).
Explosion pattern depends on layout and obstacles. In exact that layout, when neighbour PSs are apart of each other by 6 tiles - 6-10 cases are not possible, and they look exactly as in vanilla. To totally destroy power source you need to apply 120 damage to that tile (50+70). You see these colored damage dumps, I don't have to explain that. If you will make them 7 tiles apart - they will be slighly different (half destroyed PSs). In some circumstances, when damage is less than 50, Elerium item will be destroyed, but PS tile will stay intact. In some UFO layouts that COULD be possible. But not in vanilla.

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If some PSs left, then this PSs always filled by elerium in vanilla Xcom. Is it true or not?
No. Elerium is an item, like any other thrown object. It's spawned inside of PS tile. You can destroy PS with plasma, and elerium item will be lying on the ground. Or you can make "weak" explosion enough to destroy elerium, but not enough to destroy PS.

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In OXC possible situation, when a PS left, but hasn't elerium. Is it true or not?
As above. The logic is the same.

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Calculation of explosion differs between OXC and vanilla Xcom. Is it true or not?
Not quite. Current tile destruction function should work as in vanilla. The only difference here is PROBABLY bigwall divergence point. Because in OXC we introduced more accurate outer wall mechanics. In vanilla they are always treated as square objects, and even explosion can't pass-by diagonally. But it's mostly about the outer side.

In short. In 1.0 milestone it is possible that PS will be intact but won't carry any elerium inside. This is not applied to nightly.

PS. It would really help if SEED string (or something like that) be available as input field in mission generation, just to make battlescapes totally replicable for different people.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 03:08:43 pm by volutar »

Offline redv

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Re: UFO Battlescape Damage not working as remembered
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2014, 03:43:44 pm »
OK. Again.
I don't talk about events during battle.
As i said, i need to understand your position about battlegenerator. I cannot continue if i don't undertand you.

If some PSs left, then this PSs always filled by (spawned inside if you want) elerium in vanilla Xcom (during generate a battle). Is it true or not?

In OXC possible situation, when a PS left, but hasn't elerium (during generate a battle). Is it true or not?

Offline volutar

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Re: UFO Battlescape Damage not working as remembered
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2014, 04:17:07 pm »
OK. Again.
I don't talk about events during battle.
Crash explosions are actually happening during the battle, just before first turn. They are not "simulated".
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As i said, i need to understand your position about battlegenerator. I cannot continue if i don't undertand you.
You should learn to become more unerstandable with your questions.

Quote
If some PSs left, then this PSs always filled by (spawned inside if you want) elerium in vanilla Xcom (during generate a battle). Is it true or not?
In OXC possible situation, when a PS left, but hasn't elerium (during generate a battle). Is it true or not?
First of all, what is "PSs left"? Left after what?
Second of all, there are modified UFO maps with plenty of extra PSs INITIALLY without elerium.
Elerium is an item and it can be destroyed by smallest EXPLOSION damage. While PS is damaged at least with value of 50 (no matter which type of damage). There are plenty of explosion damage variations between 1 and 49 which will cause damage of elerium without damaging PS.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 04:19:53 pm by volutar »

Offline redv

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Re: UFO Battlescape Damage not working as remembered
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2014, 07:53:21 pm »
First of all, what is "PSs left"? Left after what?
Literally. That PSs what is left. After explosions, obviously. After explosions during generate a battle.

Second of all, there are modified UFO maps with plenty of extra PSs INITIALLY without elerium.
I know nothing about modified UFO because I never used this mod (or mods).