Re: Public Brainstorm - Watch for Sparks!

[The_Funktasm]

If you have the sprites, it should work

Just a couple of thoughts for you to consider regarding the megalopolis and terrains specific to countries:
* Area 51 has 144 cities, which have 1 or more terrains assigned
* Japan only has 3 cities, IIRC, so the odds of a mission spawning there are rather low, around 2%, although the regional weight increases the probabilities
* So a terrain designed specifically for a country will always have very low odds of appearing on missions, if there are already several other terrains. It's a diminishing returns situation: the more terrains you add, the less the odd of them appearing on missions, but the work just to develop 1 terrain remains the same
*

That would pose a definite problem in terms of randomized missions, and how worthwhile work would be on a Japan mapset. I suppose it would be more justified if it was a specifically spawned mission, or in a mod to make TFTD for instance more futuristic or vaguely cyber-punk.

Sure, though Japan isn't the only megalopolis in the world; think Mexico City for example.
But I'm not sure what you mean; a custom Geoscape texture with assigned maps?

Yeah, if not country specific, at least a few textures that represent dense city zones so that terror and landing sites are a bit less suburban and more ou

[Solarius Scorch]

If this is against the rules I apologize as I couldn't be sure. I just figured this would work well like it has on other forums.

Sure, no problem, this is the right place. It's not the first mod brainstorming thread, but I don't think there was one that was exactly the same.

Japan as battlescape maps. Namely, some of the ultra-dense urban areas with alleys too narrow for cars and tough to clear out close-quarters, and some of the more rural and agricultural areas. City areas of course would represent the super-dense urban environment typical to the country, or at least synonymous with it.

Sure, though Japan isn't the only megalopolis in the world; think Mexico City for example.
But I'm not sure what you mean; a custom Geoscape texture with assigned maps?

For that matter, an idea I would like to try once I can get a working map editor going: A mall as a terror site, either like Dawn of the Dead or like about the worst population density scenario, and best lighting scenario possible for a terror mission. While potentially messy, any demolitions to open up routes to other areas could work quite well for getting access to multiple areas at a time, with how many stores are practically side to side, with a joined or split storage area behind each storefront. Malls also love the multi-level approach, perhaps even being a literal two-story structure represented across four stories of classic American waste-o-space mall. A similar but simpler concept would be a possibly also American thing, I don't know if it is or not, but the classic warehouse store like Costco.

Essentially a tall, two story, but one floored building. Mostly just narrow aisles of shelves in a barren concrete/steel warehouse with store counters, registers, carts, etc. Easy enough to scan for threats, but the ceiling supports and two-story plan make it a good hiding spot for floaters, with access for a cyberdisk or reaper.

What can I say? Good luck. I plan to add a Zombie mall to X-Com Files anyway.

I'd like to hear what you guys think might work as part of or a stand-alone XCOM mod.

I'm not sure how it would be a stand-alone mod, but it'd fit most mods out there.

[The_Funktasm]

Sure, no problem, this is the right place. It's not the first mod brainstorming thread, but I don't think there was one that was exactly the same.

Sure, though Japan isn't the only megalopolis in the world; think Mexico City for example.
But I'm not sure what you mean; a custom Geoscape texture with assigned maps?

What can I say? Good luck. I plan to add a Zombie mall to X-Com Files anyway.

I'm not sure how it would be a stand-alone mod, but it'd fit most mods out there.

Personally, just about every country boiled down into tactical quirks could make a valid map for any mission type, I think. Even San Fran with their rather topographically variable urban setting. (read: ramps, steep inclines, google search "lombard street")

In any case, my main point in mentioning Japan over other megalopolis areas, is that Japan has a particular level of development where the dense areas aren't either slums, or pure industrial areas, but have a similar level of density to the worst of either.

It'd be cool to see a best/worst of their originating area mod from people from just about everywhere. I figure as well as someone can sum up the differences they perceive in architecture and design compared to another country, people can kind of distill their own country into a best/worst compilation of what they feel represents their area of birth/residence.

As far as the last bits, I more meant that as a question to base the thread on: "What are everyone's ideas, big or small? TC or small mod?"

(I figure I'm confusing, but my brain is pretty confusing... so there's not a lot to do about it...)
I have to ask out of curiosity, what are your intended tactical goals/properties/quirks in the mall site/map? Are you going for an unforgiving terror site, or more a slug-fest or body-count like most alien bases? Something where you protect people like normal, have to worry about them becoming zombies/posessed, or something altogether different like how they're more a liability than a potential threat in alien bases? Either way it's cool to hear I have an idea in common with somebody. Then again the old mall level is a bit of a classic in some genres. I think it'd be good to look at the Blues Bros. a bit for mall reference, but I'm cheesy like that and love a vague reference. (on that note, Blood's mall of the dead level is another good example of this type of level.)

[Solarius Scorch]

(I figure I'm confusing, but my brain is pretty confusing... so there's not a lot to do about it...)
I have to ask out of curiosity, what are your intended tactical goals/properties/quirks in the mall site/map? Are you going for an unforgiving terror site, or more a slug-fest or body-count like most alien bases? Something where you protect people like normal, have to worry about them becoming zombies/posessed, or something altogether different like how they're more a liability than a potential threat in alien bases?

Oh I don't really know, I just remember some Zombie Shooter levels. And some Romero classics, of course.

BTW the only actual mall-like terrain is the Commercial, made by Hobbes and slightly expanded by myself. You may want to check it out, it's in the X-Com Files.

[The_Funktasm]

While "Area 51" is the main mod I've played for inspiration for my own mod, (Awesome guns second) I've been following XCOM Files because it has a specific approach and style that I think even not having yet tried it, makes it sound interesting as an expansion to the game. I like conspiracy theories as base mythos for a plot-line and technology base for a game/mod. Deus Ex being a great example of creative reuse of conspiracy for believable plot-lines.

I think I should give it a fair try if only for a similar mindset of getting good use out of the either eerily predicative, or surprisingly negative or pessimistic views represented by typical and x-files represented conspiracy theories. IF you want (though I'm no expert on all the UFO history/theories of the world) I can share perceived possibilities and imagined technology branches based on existing UFO sightings/encounters, and inferred technological advancements/insights from various technologies. (my own mod infers that the "electromagnetic" forming of alien alloys can produce a quantity of knives out of one unit of alloys within around 48 hours.) I don't assume I have a better understanding of sci-fi technology so much as more abstract application of it than some sources...

[yrizoud]

I'm not sure cramped spaces make good maps. Even if you have access to motion scanner, it's extremely random.
And verticality poses the problem of unintuitive lines of sight.

[Arthanor]

I think that's because of how small terrain is compared to the units. Either a skyranger is a tiny plane, or it is misrepresented. Having terrain with the proper scale could enable dense terrain to be modelled without being unplayable. TftD cruise ships upper levels with the 4x4 rooms (I think) and 3 tiles wide hallways are the minimum size really. Well, maybe 2 tiles hallways, maybe.

Making cramped terrain sounds like fun, until you realize that you have to check each and every one of these rooms for enemies and that the aliens have better reactions than you, so a fair chunk of the time, it'll be "walk into a room, get shot, walk another soldier into a room, hopefully don't get shot and shoot the alien instead" which is quite unsatisfying since you spend a lot of time carefully checking rooms and then pointlessly losing people. Or you have to use the motion scanner like crazy (or like me, "hack" the engine to get those awesome boxes displayed on the battlescape). It's a very tricky balance to strike and I feel like the original UFO and TFTD terrains still do it better, with just about the right amount of terrain to open space.

[The_Funktasm]

I think that's because of how small terrain is compared to the units. Either a skyranger is a tiny plane, or it is misrepresented. Having terrain with the proper scale could enable dense terrain to be modelled without being unplayable. TftD cruise ships upper levels with the 4x4 rooms (I think) and 3 tiles wide hallways are the minimum size really. Well, maybe 2 tiles hallways, maybe.

Making cramped terrain sounds like fun, until you realize that you have to check each and every one of these rooms for enemies and that the aliens have better reactions than you, so a fair chunk of the time, it'll be "walk into a room, get shot, walk another soldier into a room, hopefully don't get shot and shoot the alien instead" which is quite unsatisfying since you spend a lot of time carefully checking rooms and then pointlessly losing people. Or you have to use the motion scanner like crazy (or like me, "hack" the engine to get those awesome boxes displayed on the battlescape). It's a very tricky balance to strike and I feel like the original UFO and TFTD terrains still do it better, with just about the right amount of terrain to open space.

I think that's because of how small terrain is compared to the units. Either a skyranger is a tiny plane, or it is misrepresented. Having terrain with the proper scale could enable dense terrain to be modelled without being unplayable. TftD cruise ships upper levels with the 4x4 rooms (I think) and 3 tiles wide hallways are the minimum size really. Well, maybe 2 tiles hallways, maybe.

Making cramped terrain sounds like fun, until you realize that you have to check each and every one of these rooms for enemies and that the aliens have better reactions than you, so a fair chunk of the time, it'll be "walk into a room, get shot, walk another soldier into a room, hopefully don't get shot and shoot the alien instead" which is quite unsatisfying since you spend a lot of time carefully checking rooms and then pointlessly losing people. Or you have to use the motion scanner like crazy (or like me, "hack" the engine to get those awesome boxes displayed on the battlescape). It's a very tricky balance to strike and I feel like the original UFO and TFTD terrains still do it better, with just about the right amount of terrain to open space.

When there are too many rooms I just set up enough sentries to guard hallways and key access areas to clusters of rooms much like a large UFO. Also useful is the creation of new entry-ways into buildings, and in extreme cases the use of indirect fire to hit any potential threat lurking beyond weak interior walls.

As far as creation methods for dense urban areas, I think care would need to go into keeping things realistic enough, but playable. Meaning somewhat open floor plan houses, etc.


On another mapping note, I wonder how well a trailer park would work as a map...

[Hobbes]

On another mapping note, I wonder how well a trailer park would work as a map...

If you have the sprites, it should work

Just a couple of thoughts for you to consider regarding the megalopolis and terrains specific to countries:
* Area 51 has 144 cities, which have 1 or more terrains assigned
* Japan only has 3 cities, IIRC, so the odds of a mission spawning there are rather low, around 2%, although the regional weight increases the probabilities
* So a terrain designed specifically for a country will always have very low odds of appearing on missions, if there are already several other terrains. It's a diminishing returns situation: the more terrains you add, the less the odd of them appearing on missions, but the work just to develop 1 terrain remains the same
*

[The_Funktasm]

If you have the sprites, it should work

Just a couple of thoughts for you to consider regarding the megalopolis and terrains specific to countries:
* Area 51 has 144 cities, which have 1 or more terrains assigned
* Japan only has 3 cities, IIRC, so the odds of a mission spawning there are rather low, around 2%, although the regional weight increases the probabilities
* So a terrain designed specifically for a country will always have very low odds of appearing on missions, if there are already several other terrains. It's a diminishing returns situation: the more terrains you add, the less the odd of them appearing on missions, but the work just to develop 1 terrain remains the same
*

That would pose a definite problem in terms of randomized missions, and how worthwhile work would be on a Japan mapset. I suppose it would be more justified if it was a specifically spawned mission, or in a mod to make TFTD for instance more futuristic or vaguely cyber-punk.

Sure, though Japan isn't the only megalopolis in the world; think Mexico City for example.
But I'm not sure what you mean; a custom Geoscape texture with assigned maps?

Yeah, if not country specific, at least a few textures that represent dense city zones so that terror and landing sites are a bit less suburban and more outright urban. I'm pretty sure that most continents have at least a handful of major cities with enough density to seem like they need a different level of development. At least less parks and more parking lots/structures. Slums even. Airports, colleges, one of those areas that has a history and a science/technology museum across the street from one another, just anything grounded that makes a terror mission feel less like you're bombing aliens out of a kind of rural/small town when it says you're in London, Paris, Dallas, etc. I know they're big enough to have some outlying or rural areas around them, but still...

[Solarius Scorch]

Even a huge megalopolis is very small when compared to the whole planet. So even if you add many megalopolis textures, the chances to hit them with a crashing UFO would be very small.
Such a mechanic would work much better in, for example, the 40k mod, since you could have the city texture occupying a much larger area.

[The_Funktasm]

Even a huge megalopolis is very small when compared to the whole planet. So even if you add many megalopolis textures, the chances to hit them with a crashing UFO would be very small.
Such a mechanic would work much better in, for example, the 40k mod, since you could have the city texture occupying a much larger area.

Or a cyberpunk mod with city sprawl and mega-cities. Anything with overpopulation overdrive.