two hands weapons vs one hand weapons

[bladum]

idea is simple. What is different between two hands and single hand weapon on the inventory screen ? Size is obvious. -20% to accuracy too.

Scenario 1)
if unit has in any hand two hands weapon he cannot put into other hand any item. This would make one hand weapons better if used with grenades etc. Now even with heavy laser unit can get grenade into other hand and throw it. In this scenario unit had to remove two hands weapon from hand and then throw the grenade.

Scenario 2)
On the other hand do not block it as in scenario 1), just double or triple the cost of moving something INTO OR FROM FREE hand when other hand has two handed weapon. This penalty is not added when one hand item exist in the other hand.

Tom

[endersblade]

In scenario one, you're assuming to have the guy hold a two-handed weapon in an "at the ready" position, while still throwing a grenade. I can tell you from personal experience, it is entirely possible to hold a rifle in one hand and still throw a grenade, accurately, with the other. In other words, while the grenade is being used and thrown, the gun is just being held by the other hand.

Also, holding a grenade in your off hand does not really hamper the usage or accuracy of a rifle. The off hand is typically used just to stabilize the gun. You have four fingers and an opposable thumb. Again, coming from experience.

Holding something like a med kit would be even easier, since they seem to have an actual handle on them. It isn't a problem until you start trying to hold two weapons in each hand and attempt to fire the bigger one. Like, say holding a rifle main hand and a pistol off hand, the pistol would really get in the way.

While not possible in xcom, it is also perfectly possible to fire a two-handed rifle from each hand, although at an obviously severe lack of accuracy.

I'm just not really sure where people get this idea that holding certain things in your off hand will make something like a rifle have suddenly terrible accuracy.

I've actually tested this sort of thing extensively when I was in Iraq. I play a lot of games that give penalties for doing things like that. So why not test it? My accuracy was more or less the same while holding things like grenades, clips, flares, canteens, and anything with a strap that didn't weigh too much. Holding anything heavy, awkward, or basically any other gun made it really hard to fire accurately, because you don't have even a decent grip on the front of the rifle, so it just goes where it wants.

[bladum]

thanks for detailed explanation.

But what is the purpose to use pistol (balistic, laser, plasma) if you have rifle of the same type ? And often heavy version is too bulky leaving more or less half of weapons that actually matters.

For aliens it is defined in list of item levels but for human player ?

[yrizoud]

The ufopedia site gives some reasons to use them
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Pistol
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Laser_Pistol
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Plasma_Pistol

[endersblade]

thanks for detailed explanation.

But what is the purpose to use pistol (balistic, laser, plasma) if you have rifle of the same type ? And often heavy version is too bulky leaving more or less half of weapons that actually matters.

For aliens it is defined in list of item levels but for human player ?

Well, I do it for...I guess role-playing purposes.  It's perfectly possible to carry a rifle or something in your bags as well as whatever you have in-hand, as long as you have the strength for it.  Sure, there is probably one 'uber' weapon per tier that all your guys should be using at all times, but people like to vary it up a bit.  And some people like using 'heavies' - rocket launchers, that sort of thing.

All your guys have strength.  Carrying more stuff will increase said strength.  Eventually your guys will be the equivalent to the Hulk and can carry freaking EVERYTHING.  It's just a matter of getting them there.  Some guys start with insanely low STR, so it's more efficient to stick them to pistols.  Pistols don't way much, take fewer time units to fire.  So you can get in closer (if you go over your STR in weight, it starts to eat up your time units, so your guys have fewer to use...or maybe it's energy, either way, they get tired and aren't efficient) and then have a better chance to hit since you're closer.  If you stuck a rifle on someone with low STR, there's a good chance it'll cap out or go over the STR, and that causes problems.  So start the weak guys out on pistols, upgrade them to rifles when you can, and just work your way up and around like that.

The plus side to pistols is (and I'm not sure how this works in OpenXcom) you CAN carry something in your off-hand without a penalty.  Obviously functions that way in real life, too.  So you could make, say, a medic that carries a medkit in one hand, and pistol in the other, rather than having to fumble around with rifles and such.

Really, it's all about how YOU want to play.  There really is no RIGHT or WRONG way to gear your guys.  Although obviously pistols do less damage, heavier weapons do more, but there are other balance issues (aiming penalties, more or less time units to fire, etc) for and against each weapon type, you just have to figure out which  you like the best.

Me personally, I'm using the Final Mod Pack, and each tier, I stick my guys with Sniper Rifles.  Takes a ridiculous amount of TUs to fire, I can't move very much each turn, but they're accurate and they do a hefty amount of damage.  I also have guys who carry stun weapons exclusively.  Tazers are the start, then dart guns, then stun bomb launchers.  That's how all of my crew are.  Most snipers, the rest stunners.  I don't use explosives or heavies.