[TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.62)

[psavola]

IIRC multi-stage missions can sometimes have surface restrictions for one part and underwater ones for the other (biolab, for example).

I don't think OXCE engine provides a possibility for different item restrictions for multi-stage missions. Looking at the changelog, multistage support was added way back in 2018, but itemcategories are not supported (see the example ruleset in https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=4444.msg91852#msg91852). I'm not sure what that would even mean technically mean (would you essentially only be able to use dual-use items, because you can't bring underwater-only items to stage 1?).

I'm 99 % sure I've used surface-only stun grenades in biolab level 2 ("underwater") and was unable to bring DPLs there.

Now checking the ruleset, part 1 has starting conditions STR_SURFACE, and the second part suggests that the underwater starting conditions don't actually apply (at least to items):

   startingCondition: STR_UNDERWATER
(...)
    depth: [0, 0] #Because startingconditions dont work.

[Amoebka]

Right, I think the second stage counts as underwater for armors, but not items, which is jank.

I'm not sure what that would even mean technically mean (would you essentially only be able to use dual-use items, because you can't bring underwater-only items to stage 1?).

I think the desired behaviour is that you can bring anything, but will have to re-equip between stages. It is possible to bring underwater items on land missions, you just can't use them. At least that's how it works in vanilla TFTD, I'm not sure custom mod itemgroups allow the same behaviour.

[ashugg]

Hello Nord, I'd like to submit some small fixes to Language/en-US.yml - what's the best way to do this, please?

[Nord]

Hi. Upload file here. Thanks.

[ashugg]

Hi. Upload file here. Thanks.

Gotcha, thank you. Will do.

[SineSwiper]

I'm really not understanding acid damage.  I have a Breeder weapon here that is self-described as something that "chews through armor using highly corrosive venom".  It does zero damage to Lobstermen.  Zero.  No corrosive effects.  No damage.  I've seen similar results with the XCOM acid weapons, too.  It claims to be effective against armor, but doesn't actually do the thing it's advertised to do.

You know what's effective against Lobstermen?  The Squeezer.  One-shots them every time.  It's just plain melee damage.  It has more of a pre-damage multiplier than the Breeder, but I should not see a range of zero damage to all of the damage between a multiplier of 150% vs. 200%.

The XCOM Acid Gun doesn't even have that multiplier, even though the entry says it "instantly corrodes and damages armor".  Stats for Nerds says no.  There's nothing special about it, except that it causes Acid damage, and that doesn't seem special enough to cause a noticeable effect.

What is actually the point of acid weapons?

I'm running around in a game without an Examination Room (and thus no sonic), trying to full-clear an alien base to get one, stuck with three Squeezers, desperately trying to corral these super-top important VIPs with the only means to actually kill Lobstermen, because these stupid Breeders do no damage, and my Gauss Rifles only tickle them a little.

And sorry for the rant.  The rest of the modpack is excellent.  I really like the efforts to put in better in-between weapon/craft categories, and I make use of the surface-only equipment all the time.  But, I think acid needs a buff here.

[Nord]

All acid weapons causing damage to armor (before this armor is counted).
As for lobstermen, they have 90% resistance to acid, so yes, spawners and toxiguns almost completely useless against them.

[SineSwiper]

All acid weapons causing damage to armor (before this armor is counted).
As for lobstermen, they have 90% resistance to acid, so yes, spawners and toxiguns almost completely useless against them.

Ha! One of the most armored thing in the game is resistant to the anti-armor tech.  Boo.

I did manage to clear it up, after something like eight hours of save puzzling, mostly with the Squeezers and Thermal Tazers.

Alas, no Examination Room.  I'm beginning to think something is bugged here.  Base (non-open) XCOM:TFTP didn't even have the exam room as a proper object, since it was subject to its own bug.  But, here, the Exam Room is the only path towards Advanced Bionics, according to the research tree.  And it's just plain missing everywhere.  None in alien dungeons, artifact levels, not even a carefully full-cleared alien base.

I mean, surely, mostly anything you need to get past mid-game bottlenecks would be in an alien base, right?

Where is this supposed to actually appear?  Am I running into this bug?  I can hack it in the my save file (STR_EXAMINATION_ROOM) and research it, but I can't find it in-game.

[psavola]

I have always obtained examination room first from a very large USO. It's a RNG thing when these will spawn at a reasonable location. Sometimes you get one already in June timeframe, sometimes you can go almost the whole year without one.

They might be available somewhere else as well, not sure. In particular I'd check Naga temple, Naga City, Alien Barge and Alien Lab. The latter two are likely very difficult at this point of the game due to all the MC, but there might be special tactics one could employ (e.g. 3 SWS).

[Shiroi Bara]

Today I figured out, what Triton and other ships could be uploaded with SWS regardless of usual amount. Even USOpaedia articles shows 24 SWS capacity for some ships. I'm not sure, may be this is my OXCE bug or may be game script. Another question - I'm keeping losing games due to Tsunami generator mission. I can't do anything there, because I have no protection from MC attacks. But this is not main issue - question why I have 2500 points penalty for arriving and leaving it? It's even more (or same may be not 100% sure now) if I just ignore it. Yes, you're already said what entire city gone but why same penalty for leaving? OXCE issues?

[Nord]

24 sws - it's about small ones.

About Tsunami - mo matter if you ignore or if you came and leave, tsunami still be produced by this installation, and people will suffer.

[Shiroi Bara]

Very interesting. This is big game change. I mean 2 pilots and rest drones what could use gas weapons or another what require one hand gives you protection from MC attacks. Yes they have no armor, but could see through smoke (darkness) and have TU to equip, shoot, unequip and wait for next turn. Thank you for information.

[SineSwiper]

The more I look into Acid damage, the more I think it needs to be buffed to some degree.  There are soooo many creatures that our outright immune to it: Gill Men, Lobstermen (10%, but basically immune), Tasoth and the guardian form, Calcinites, Deep Ones, Tentaculats, Xarquid, and I think also the Triscene.  So, any sort of creature that has high armor, where these kinds of weapons would actually be useful, but it doesn't work.  What is it useful against?

Aquatoids and Jellymen?  Who cares?  They die to anything.

Naga and Carcharodon?  That's okay, but it's too situational.  Naga typically die from one hit of a Gauss Rifle, anyway.

Freaks?  You still need to get past the MC shield, and then they die in one hit.

Hellcrabs?  Yeah, that's useful, but again, why am carrying Acid Guns around just for a few creature types?

Worse, it's not like these guns are weak against the other types.  They are completely immune.  You don't see that with Gauss at all.  Gauss Rifles are good all-purpose guns.  Or any of the other guns, for that matter.  They can at least do a little bit of damage against creatures that are strong against that damage type.