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Messages - Abyss

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31
Brutal AI / Re: xpiratez + brutal OXCE items spawning bug
« on: December 28, 2023, 09:09:45 pm »
The winter queen's outfit should give 1 glamour and 1 silver chip. If you upload the save file to brutal OXCE, launch the mission, and then immediately fly away on the first turn, there will be no loot.
All units of the ninja faction have built-in ninja badges. Badges will also not appear after killing ninjas.
There definitly were ninja badges in my last playthrough. That was 7.9.13

32
Brutal AI / Re: Interceptor attack mode
« on: December 28, 2023, 08:43:00 am »
Why these "guided" missiles have less than 100% accuracy? What makes them miss? If not distance then what? Never mind, just side question. 😉
Roleplay of evasion maneuvers.

33
Brutal AI / Re: Base info QoL improvements
« on: December 28, 2023, 08:40:08 am »
Assuming only largest UFO assaults base
No. In megamods a number of UFO's assault bases. From tiny crafts and rockets (which damage facilities) to battleships. Please, take you time to play some megamods to get in line with actual knowledge of gameplay processes average player experiences.   

34
Brutal AI / Re: Engine mechanic changes for BAI
« on: December 28, 2023, 08:35:41 am »
Quote
Another thing might be to create training facility similar to MC lab because they die quite fast and getting experience in combat is not an option anymore.
I heard such facilities exist but never saw. Is it something can be done with ruleset?
Please don't blend everything into one.
BAI is AI. It's not the mod.
Contents are made with modders, which is you. And as soon as you make TFTD mod you may include it and make changes for either stats caps and training power of the facility.
Also, you can vary alien stats.
Also, you can vary weapon power.

35
Brutal AI / Re: Brutal-OXCE 7.13.1
« on: December 28, 2023, 08:23:40 am »
No arguments here. I never even paid attention to unit intelligence in vanilla/OXCE. That is why I am very curious how people use it in other mods that they want to transfer this functionality to BAI ???
Vanilla AI and BAI work in different way, and Xilmi was the first person to propose migration of native (i.e. modder-set) intel and aggro settings into BAI. What is being discussed here is that, although, approach is overall good, the VAI and BAI intel and aggro doesn't exactly correlate in a way one may suppose on the initial look. Thus, while most units work perfectly fine, others work not as intended.
Intellect = memory function in VAI, while in BAI it is aspect of action fineness.
Aggro = frontal assault vs ambush-preservation of TU's. It is somewhat close to BAI's intention, but now shifted by some amount of whole numbers (in VAI terms) for amount of units, that are supposed to be more cowards rather than brave warriors.

While lacking serious AI tools, modders of vanilla OXCE balance fights by following means:
- enemy amounts, stats&armors and weapons
- restricting X-COM in same categories
- map design and initial unit layout

The proposed solution for BAI to be top-experience is:
- making formulas clear and final
- and then fine-tune aggro and intel settings in RUL files to estimated values either by modders themselves or by community.

By mine understanding, it should be a multiplicator, rather than surplus.
For instance of balanced aggro of BAI = 1, aggro 3-4 for pusher will be enough to represent super-aggressive unit, and 0-1 - 0.2 will be enough to represent super-coward unit. No need for aggressiveness 7-10.
Again, this all being supposed for psychological validity of unit behavior, i.e. player's game experience, and may a bit nerf the overall power of BAI. Which is compensated by unit amount via difficulty level.   

Xilmi says that BAI ain't going to be perfect for any mission out there, unless megamod is created specially with BAI in mind. But we can go close enough by hand-tuning.   
   

36
Brutal AI / Re: Brutal-OXCE 7.13.1
« on: December 27, 2023, 11:58:51 pm »
What exactly are you asking for as far as an 'optionable' mod goes? You can already make a mod either recommend or enforce individual game settings, and one can certainly set any global variables that need resetting for BAI compatibility.


Simply, how it is all done so one ruleset is forcefully getting replaced with another one, while original Sol's unit.rul file stays intact. Probably, call it "Brutal-AI optimization of units for XCF".

The alternative can be just replacement of original unit.rul file with another, which contains adjusted intel and aggro settings.

37
Brutal AI / Re: Brutal-OXCE 7.13.1
« on: December 27, 2023, 06:13:21 pm »
Sure, but then someone also has to tweak the mod(s) to include data for both AIs. Reusing existing intelligence variables is a compromise and, like many compromises, it does its job but not well.
I intending to do replacement unit_RUL file for XCF, there's not much of units. Around 200 or so. And pretty all units are familiar enough to work around. But  I have no idea how to make it as optionable mod via settings, not as permanent replacement.
Let's see what Xilmi answers on passive aggression.

38
Brutal AI / Re: Brutal-OXCE 7.13.1
« on: December 27, 2023, 04:07:11 pm »
So, the answer was, that:
Unit intel = amount of turns, when unit remembers of particular targets and is not switching to patrol if/else behavior
And, for unit aggro:
0 = mostly passive
1 = balanced
2+ = mostly aggressive ,meaningful values are between 2 and 8.

The interesting point here is that passive aggression (lol) means that units tend to set up ambushes, rather than attack. More specifically, to retain TU's for reaction fire a lot more than attacking units do. These units include: most alien, human and X-COM turrets, some alien leaders, etc.
Even more interesting, that there's just 1 tone in the 0-1 palette for passiveness, while aggressiveness has 7+ tones.
While high aggressiveness means kinship towards frontal and melee attacks. That may be a key to evaluate satisfactory melee behavior in cases, where unit cannot reach enemy within one turn.
I do feel by instinct, that BAI may use one more particular axis in decision mechanism, but not yet can formulate what exactly it is.

So, what I suppose is:
1) retain TU's for enemy leaders and moving robots, mean if they don't see, they better ambush, than move towards, using whole TU's, even if morale is high.
2) passive units tend face towards supposed player units incoming direction (I have seen several UFO's, which turrets where looking somewhere else during midbattle, if my units were covered. I may be not knowing recent changes, tho)
3) split aggressiveness-based behavioral model into two forks, where high morale doesn't force 0-1 aggressiveness units to rush, but rather ambush.
4) Consider splitting 0-1 aggressiveness into, at least, 4-5 steps, like pure 0 (for static turrets), 0.1-0.2 for leaders, 0.3-0.6 for turrets, 0.4-0.8 for little amount of specific aliens, etc. I'm kind of upset seeing alien leaders run towards death if overall morale is high.
5) to consider how this should correlate with mind attacks from psion enemies.   

39
The X-Com Files / Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« on: December 27, 2023, 03:09:19 pm »
A mode where mongorns have a chance of possessing a throwable rock in their hand?
No that kind of submod yet?

40
This question is answered by the Ruleset Reference:

Thank you for clarification, that's quite meaningful

41
Nevertheless, thank you for taking a look into that

42
Hello everyone!
Please, consider helping make it clear.

Recently, different player reported an issue with BAI chryssalids not behaving optimally in open terrain melee situations. I suggested tuning the AI options to consider modder-set intelligence and aggressiveness options, which BAI can already do. However, while looking into the units RUL file, I realized that unit intelligence may not be that straightforward. For example, ethereals may have an intelligence level of 3, while snakemen can have 7, some stormtroopers may have 1, while megascorpions may have 2, and chryssalids have 4 etc.

So my question is whether the intelligence and aggressiveness numbers are on a strict scale from 0 to 10, where 0 represents degenerate behavior and 10 represents battlefield genius, or if they are just markings of presets for a behavioral frameworks that doesn't correlate with the actual gradation (bigger number doesn't mean smarter). The same question applies to aggressiveness numbers. Is it possible that the number is just a link to a preset, and actual aggressiveness relies on something else?

Currently, BAI uses intelligence and aggressiveness as markers for how units should behave and how many wrong moves the AI makes. Xilmi has included BAI options that take into account what modders assigned to units in UNITS.RUL in regard to their aggro and intel. However, if the aggressiveness and intel are not straightforward like in BAI, balance could be pretty broken.

Let me explain: right now BAI uses intelligence and aggressiveness as own markers for:
- how units should behave (0 aggro = more cover and ambush, 1 = careful fight, 2 aggro = balanced fight, 3 = careful push, 4 aggro = push no matter what)
- how many wrong moves AI makes (0 intel = can do not-optimal move/shot, or even stay open, to 5 intel = each move/shot is a move towards battle won).
When the combined option is enabled, BAI reduces baseline numbers and pluses portion of the numbers which are set by modders, respectfully. Then, unit with intel 9 (like, ghost) under ruleset will behave as most sentient, and unit with intel 1 (like, magma cosmonaut, obliterator, crocs and other guys) will make far more mistakes.

Thank you for you time!

43
Brutal AI / Re: Brutal-OXCE 7.13.1
« on: December 26, 2023, 11:03:48 pm »
Well, I can, at least, go through unit ruleset and customize the intel and aggro levels to match average player expactations (or just mine, if everybody else doesn't care of behavioral inconsistency) of the units. Like, minotaurs should be quite stupid and aggressive, good soldiers should be balanced, and beings like stargods, sectoids and faction leaders should be quite smart.
This solution now seems the only option.
For chrysalids, well, no idea, what comes next. Probably addition of some BAI-only related flag can solve the question. And then - voting between the players and devs can show which exactly units deserve logics.
A couple more questions arose:
Zombies behave as Sol intended, what exactly have you done to them?
Werevolves are controlled by BAI, while being living weapons - why so? Do they have inventory? I don't argue for changing that, just curious. Perhaps my solution will be boosting their aggro to max, as their intended intel expected to be low.

44
If you play X-Com Files and want to chat about it, or just want to chat about it
Good day, Sol,
Can you look at the topic above?

45
XPiratez / Re: Tips on the Jack Sparrow difficulty?
« on: December 26, 2023, 12:18:01 am »
Because I cared about JS a year ago) It was fun.
Except the ninja part. It totally wasn't fun.

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